briny_ear Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think we'll beat Sunderland. The initial MON-inspired euphoria seems to have worn off a bit and they have a few injuries affecting a squad that is quite poor in the first place. They got twatted at the Albion and Ewood Park whcih would lend support to your arguments. I think we'll give pube heads side a good schillacking myself.It will certainly be the pits if MON brings a rubbish Sunderland side, that a few weeks ago was heading for relegation, to Villa Park and beats us. It would be a poignant comment on our recent history.A few weeks ago? Think you mean months. As for the Sunderland side, they're not actually that bad. Some decent players in there. Bruce is just a crap manager.OK, let's stop trading colloquial phrases. To be precise, 14 weeks ago. I can't think MON's success compared with our relative failure is made any better by the number of weeks he's been there Sunderland's 1st choice XI is decent enough but there's not much depth in the squad to cover for key injuries, as they seem to be finding at the moment. If we can't beat them at VP it will be the pits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think we'll beat Sunderland. The initial MON-inspired euphoria seems to have worn off a bit and they have a few injuries affecting a squad that is quite poor in the first place. They got twatted at the Albion and Ewood Park whcih would lend support to your arguments. I think we'll give pube heads side a good schillacking myself.It will certainly be the pits if MON brings a rubbish Sunderland side, that a few weeks ago was heading for relegation, to Villa Park and beats us. It would be a poignant comment on our recent history.A few weeks ago? Think you mean months. As for the Sunderland side, they're not actually that bad. Some decent players in there. Bruce is just a crap manager.OK, let's stop trading colloquial phrases. To be precise, 14 weeks ago. I can't think MON's success compared with our relative failure is made any better by the number of weeks he's been there Sunderland's 1st choice XI is decent enough but there's not much depth in the squad to cover for key injuries, as they seem to be finding at the moment. If we can't beat them at VP it will be the pits. Would I be right in saying we haven't beaten Sunderland at home for 3 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm not so sure about that one. MON always had that edge over McLeish. Now I don't rate MON at all (although he's a lot better than McLeish) but I just can't see us winning that. Draw I reckon. Not sure how you can't rate someone who took us from relegation bound (i.e. where we are now) to 6th and europe in consecutive appearances with a cup final and FA Cup semi final. Whether you like MON or not, you must be able to admit the guy is a fantastic manager.I've already been over why I don't rate him a thousand times. Other people on here have been over it as well and their reasons match my own. You talk about MON being a fantastic manager as if it's some kind of fact - it isn't. The only fact here (and some would probably even debate that) is that he's better than McLeish. Well firstly I havnt studied individual people's thoughts on certain topics - and it seems that we'll be disagreeing on what determines what a "fantastic" manager is. For me, MON taking us to 6th consecutively, in europe consecutively, cup final and semi final etc does represent fantastic management considering what he inherited. Likewise at Sunderland - most of their fans, I'm sure, as do the media, pundits etc feel that MON has done a fantastic job in turning round Sunderland. I know people have their views on why they don't rate MON - but I'm sure they were happier when we had him and we challenging for top 4 places then fighting relegation with the two managers we've had since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 MON is a fantastic manager until he hits his glass ceiling Then he's quite average and a prickly person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 MON is a fantastic manager until he hits his glass ceiling Then he's quite average and a prickly person So he's not that good then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Its why he will never get a TOP job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 MON is a fantastic manager until he hits his glass ceiling Then he's quite average and a prickly person By glass ceiling do you mean financial restraints due to a poorly run club with no long term plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Its why he will never get a TOP jobManaging Villa was a TOP job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I wish we played at home the way Liverpool play at home. this the same liverpool who failed to beat norwich, swansea, blackburn, stoke,sunderland at home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I'm not so sure about that one. MON always had that edge over McLeish. Now I don't rate MON at all (although he's a lot better than McLeish) but I just can't see us winning that. Draw I reckon. Not sure how you can't rate someone who took us from relegation bound (i.e. where we are now) to 6th and europe in consecutive appearances with a cup final and FA Cup semi final. Whether you like MON or not, you must be able to admit the guy is a fantastic manager.I've already been over why I don't rate him a thousand times. Other people on here have been over it as well and their reasons match my own. You talk about MON being a fantastic manager as if it's some kind of fact - it isn't. The only fact here (and some would probably even debate that) is that he's better than McLeish. Well firstly I havnt studied individual people's thoughts on certain topics - and it seems that we'll be disagreeing on what determines what a "fantastic" manager is. For me, MON taking us to 6th consecutively, in europe consecutively, cup final and semi final etc does represent fantastic management considering what he inherited. Likewise at Sunderland - most of their fans, I'm sure, as do the media, pundits etc feel that MON has done a fantastic job in turning round Sunderland. I know people have their views on why they don't rate MON - but I'm sure they were happier when we had him and we challenging for top 4 places then fighting relegation with the two managers we've had since.With the resources he had his "achievements" were decent but nothing more. That's my opinion. He's done a very good job at Sunderland so far, but I'm waiting to see what happens in a couple of years time when he's built his own squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 MON's a fantastic manager. All managers need to be backed financially if the club wants to kick on and this investment has to continue in the future - it's not as simple as just getting a squad together and that's it - you have to keep adding over the years and tweaking things otherwise you stagnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggaman Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 MON is a fantastic manager until he hits his glass ceiling Then he's quite average and a prickly person By glass ceiling do you mean financial restraints due to a poorly run club with no long term plan? I'm guessing it was more in reference to the fact that MON played a big role in putting us in this financial position with his poor signings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggaman Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 MON's a fantastic manager. All managers need to be backed financially if the club wants to kick on and this investment has to continue in the future - it's not as simple as just getting a squad together and that's it - you have to keep adding over the years and tweaking things otherwise you stagnate. MON was backed to the hilt and had the perfect chance to break the top four. He bottled it by wasting money on average players. I thank him for two trips to Wembley, yet to say he wasn't backed financially is just wrong. Good manager but nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 The guy was backed handsomely, yes he did well initially, but when it came to the crunch and we needed a top class striker, the final piece, he signed Emile farkin Heskey. That was plain stupid He also did buy lots of squad filler shite and sold our young kids who were as good as this dross he spent tens of millions on Very annoying prickly man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 MON's a fantastic manager. All managers need to be backed financially if the club wants to kick on and this investment has to continue in the future - it's not as simple as just getting a squad together and that's it - you have to keep adding over the years and tweaking things otherwise you stagnate. MON was backed to the hilt and had the perfect chance to break the top four. He bottled it by wasting money on average players. I thank him for two trips to Wembley, yet to say he wasn't backed financially is just wrong. Good manager but nothing special. I'm not saying he wasn't backed financially - he clearly was. The club changed their policy because they had to, he didn't want the new restraints and he left - I don't blame him or the club here, because it was both of their prerogatives to do what they did. I'd take MON back in a second though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 MON is a fantastic manager until he hits his glass ceiling Then he's quite average and a prickly person By glass ceiling do you mean financial restraints due to a poorly run club with no long term plan? I'm guessing it was more in reference to the fact that MON played a big role in putting us in this financial position with his poor signings... But the problem wasn't money on poor players it was wages to revenue issues and the chairman is responsible for keeping that in shape. MON got more points every season and we didn't spend enough to claim we should have finished above spurs, city or any of the original top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 The problem WAS fees & wages on crap players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 It doesn't matter if they were shit, average or good. The problem was the percentage of our revenue spent on wages was too high. Would finishing 4th have solved that problem? Yes revenue would have increased but then surely we would have had to strengthen the squad as well and so wages would also once again increase. And if we failed to qualify the following year we'd be left with high wages and a drop in revenue. Champions league may have sorted out all our problems but no one can look at what spurs and city spent in the same period and really argue that we should have finished above them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 MON's a fantastic manager. All managers need to be backed financially if the club wants to kick on and this investment has to continue in the future - it's not as simple as just getting a squad together and that's it - you have to keep adding over the years and tweaking things otherwise you stagnate. I know it has been send time and again but if we had signed Bent (or A.N.Other instead of Heskey we would have been in the Champions League the following year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 MON is a fantastic manager until he hits his glass ceiling Then he's quite average and a prickly person By glass ceiling do you mean financial restraints due to a poorly run club with no long term plan? I'm guessing it was more in reference to the fact that MON played a big role in putting us in this financial position with his poor signings... But the problem wasn't money on poor players it was wages to revenue issues and the chairman is responsible for keeping that in shape. MON got more points every season and we didn't spend enough to claim we should have finished above spurs, city or any of the original top 4. Agree, while lerner has increased revenue since he took over allowing wages to get up to 83% of revenue was criminal. he should not be allowed to run a business. quite how we can pay so many players over 40k is baffling. Given,Dunne,Warnock,Petrov,Heskey,Gabby,Ireland,Bent,Jenas talk about crippling the club. I think we can get rid of most if not all of these people in the summer and replace them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts