Scottish Independence

[blandy]

10 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

How is this thread an argument for that ? I don't get it ?

Examples ?

 

On 3/18/2017 at 11:25, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

You forgot "Shortbread" & "Tarten".  Game changers,  who needs oil when these can easily be combined in a box, shortbread & Tarten combo (She can use this if she is reading this,  which we know she is).  There is loads of other stuff that they are really good at and can be exported.like erm,  you know.    

I suggest that Sturgeon is slightly less mentally stable than myself and I suspect that even now when she hears "Crackerjack" the old memories come flooding back.  Nobody ever asks how she ended up dressed as a little boy and I don't want to know at this point.  Anyone else but her and I would have said give it a go but i find her blinkered view just what we dont need at the moment when flexibility and compromise need to be the start point for Brexit etc.  Not "I want this and I want it now "FREEEEEEDOM"" bolox from her.  Bitter,  I think so. ,Sucking a lemon permanently she is hmm the tarten is strong in her,  Sturgeon has actually got lips like Angelina Jolie but due to the deep "Bitterization" and jealousy (Like, to the core of her Bitter Krankie self) most of her lips have turn inward and thus the feeding through a straw thing like a pet mouse in a London ruled cage with a little water pot where people drop lucky coins in with the Queens head on.  Some land on little Sturgeon a swell.  She's not into that.

How about this one?

 

[StefanAVFC]

10 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

How is this thread an argument for that ? I don't get it ?

Examples ?

Well it's clear the disdain that certain people hold for Scotland from the comments over the last couple of pages.

I believe it was said previously in the thread. The best argument that the SNP could make is to show Scots how little the English think of them.

[Jon]

WTF is 'Tarten'?  

[Jon]

Given the attitude of many in here towards the Scots wanting 'independence' and us seemingly laughing at sneering at them for wanting that, and us 'knowing' that given independence, their little country will be **** as it has nothing going for it, is there not the obvious parallel here with how the Europeans might view us?

ie wanting out of the largest trading block in the world, seemingly for the sole reason of thinking we are back in 1800 and are still a massive player in our own right. Will they not be sneering at us to have the temerity to think we can go it alone as 'Little Englanders', and thus teach us a lesson in Brexit negotiations?  

[Awol]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

Well it's clear the disdain that certain people hold for Scotland 

*rolly eyes thingy*

[StefanAVFC]

49 minutes ago, Jon said:

Given the attitude of many in here towards the Scots wanting 'independence' and us seemingly laughing at sneering at them for wanting that, and us 'knowing' that given independence, their little country will be **** as it has nothing going for it, is there not the obvious parallel here with how the Europeans might view us?

ie wanting out of the largest trading block in the world, seemingly for the sole reason of thinking we are back in 1800 and are still a massive player in our own right. Will they not be sneering at us to have the temerity to think we can go it alone as 'Little Englanders', and thus teach us a lesson in Brexit negotiations?  

Yep.

This mental disconnect is what I was attempting to highlight previously.

Edited March 20, 2017 by StefanAVFC

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

44 minutes ago, Jon said:

Given the attitude of many in here towards the Scots wanting 'independence' and us seemingly laughing at sneering at them for wanting that, and us 'knowing' that given independence, their little country will be **** as it has nothing going for it, is there not the obvious parallel here with how the Europeans might view us?

ie wanting out of the largest trading block in the world, seemingly for the sole reason of thinking we are back in 1800 and are still a massive player in our own right. Will they not be sneering at us to have the temerity to think we can go it alone as 'Little Englanders', and thus teach us a lesson in Brexit negotiations?  

You're absolutely right but meh, teaching us a lesson will only make Europe weaker. Plus Scotland leaving England is imo v different from Britain leaving the EU. 
The whole European union has to change and until that time it's pretty likely that the EU will fall one nation at a time. (economically and not just by membership). 

I cannot wait to see the SNP campaigning for the Euro.

10 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Yep.

This mental disconnect is what I was attempting to highlight previously.

If that's your opinion I look forward to your further explanation in US politics Do zobacenia.

Edited March 20, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[StefanAVFC]

9 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

If that's your opinion I look forward to your further explanation in US politics Do zobacenia.

No problem, it will be delivered.

Na razie.

[blandy]

13 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

it's pretty likely that the EU will fall one nation at a time

I don't think it is. To stick to the topic a bit, The aim of the Scottish Gov't is to join/not leave the EU.  I6t's true there are (minority) anti EU parties in quite a few countries, but overall the EU and membership of the EU is something seen elsewhere as a positive thing. 

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

18 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't think it is. To stick to the topic a bit, The aim of the Scottish Gov't is to join/not leave the EU.  I6t's true there are (minority) anti EU parties in quite a few countries, but overall the EU and membership of the EU is something seen elsewhere as a positive thing. 

I agree there and I personally love the idea; I just hate the farcical practice.

If you consider that EU membership requires the Euro I don't think Hungary, Poland, Spain, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Sweden, Denmark, Latvia or Lithuania would agree with you that the major change delivers economic prosperity and security for its citizens. 

Poland is one country that has highlighted the endemic problems of currency and micro economic weakness when the EU gets involved. Scotland might have more obvious economic power than Poland but strategically it's less valuable than a gateway and border country.

Edited March 20, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[ml1dch]

33 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

Plus Scotland leaving England ...

When people talk about English arrogance, it's probably (for the most part) nothing huge that's they're doing.

It's probably small, instinctive things like seeing the UK as England plus those few other bits tacked onto the sides.

[StefanAVFC]

The EU is Poland is viewed as an overwhelmingly positive thing FWIW.

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

2 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

When people talk about English arrogance, it's probably (for the most part) nothing huge that's they're doing.

It's probably small, instinctive things like seeing the UK as England plus those few other bits tacked onto the sides.

I definitely agree with you but I used 'England' for a specific reason. (I also used Britain in the same sentence.)

Scotland constantly blurs the lines between the UK and England when they are throwing about insults and criticisms.

[tonyh29]

 

23 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The EU is Poland is viewed as an overwhelmingly positive thing FWIW.

apart from by Beata Szydlo

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

 

apart from by Beata Szydlo

 

 

Who most reasonable and rational Poles hate.

Even her party, who 'Euro-skeptic' still wouldn't pull Poland out of the EU, because they know they'd be killed politically.

[tonyh29]

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

The best argument that the SNP could make is to show Scots how little the English think of them.

I actually think the best argument SNP could make would be an economic one  , but as they can't , that's probably why they are going for the Tory English Bastard  rhetoric all the time

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

...they are going for the Tory English Bastard  rhetoric all the time

Because Theresa May is giving them clear evidence of it by the Bucketload, the numpty that she is. They'd be mad not to. It's so easy for them to go "Look, here she is, at it again". It's just open goals and (arrogant English bastard alert) even the Scots can't miss them .

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

46 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The EU is Poland is viewed as an overwhelmingly positive thing FWIW.

All I can go on is occasional conversations with my Polish family and the news I read/watch so I am of course much less informed than you. 
It's good to hear that the country believes the Euro will be good for them....maybe the positivity will help. It's not the opinion I read so clearly I am out of touch.

As I understood it (perhaps past tense now!) many people are overjoyed at the new society and investment the EU brings (esp. security) but I'm not sure the long term economic prosperity is suiting all people in Poland. We're a big country!

Many people talk about the amount of people leaving the country, low skilled jobs seeing wage stagnation, the running out of EU funding, many Polish companies being bought by international ones, agricultural employment loses (a major employer) and the rising price of Polish homes. 
There are many more examples but from what I read and understood there are many in the country who are concerned that when Poland does 'catch-up' (whatever that means, Spain is certainly treated like it's caught up) the EU will already have put them on the downward spiral and found a new country to support.

You work in Lodz, but I am guessing you don't work in textiles? Maybe finance or tech? And perhaps not even for a Polish company? (Not expecting an answer btw, too personal)

Being part of the EU is one thing; running your country under outdated, inflexible EU regulation is quite another. I hope it never happens because I love Poland but I am certainly concerned that EU and Polish politics/ideals will clash heavily in the future,

Edited March 20, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[StefanAVFC]

8 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

All I can go on is occasional conversations with my Polish family and the news I read/watch so I am of course much less informed than you. 
It's good to hear that the country believes the Euro will be good for them....maybe the positivity will help. It's not the opinion I read so clearly I am out of touch.

 

Woah, woah woah woah woah... what!?

Where did I say that? I very clearly said that Poles are happy being part of the EU. I didn't mention the Euro and if there's any plans to switch to it, I haven't heard of them.

8 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

As I understood it (perhaps past tense now!) many people are overjoyed at the new society and investment the EU brings (esp. security) but I'm not sure the long term economic prosperity is suiting all people in Poland. We're a big country!
 

I've written a big post about this. For younger generations, people are moving to the cities or abroad. In places such as Lodz, or Krakow, big companies are moving here and offering well-paid jobs for those with language skills. The inequality in Poland is generational, definitely. So long term, Poland is doing fantastically.

8 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

Many people talk about the amount of people leaving the country, low skilled jobs seeing wage stagnation, the running out of EU funding, many Polish companies being bought by international ones, agricultural employment loses (a major employer) and the rising price of Polish homes. 
There are many more examples but from what I read and understood there are many in the country who are concerned that when Poland does 'catch-up' (whatever that means, Spain is certainly treated like it's caught up) the EU will already have put them on the downward spiral and found a new country to support.

 

To be honest with you, from my understanding, small towns and villages are where industry is dying out. But this is a global trend. Cities like Warsaw have already 'caught up' with regards to living standards. The EU is far from putting Poland into a downward spiral. They're only looking up. As I've stated previously on this forum, in the 2.5 years I've been here, Lodz has developed massively and all I see everywhere is building projects and infrastructure improvements. Low skilled wages are a serious problem here, but the level of young poles either in higher education or speaking English is that high, that people will find jobs easier than their parents who spoke only Polish. Rising costs of Polish homes, can't really comment. Rent hasn't gone up in the time I've been here and most middle class Poles build their own homes.

8 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

You work in Lodz, but I am guessing you don't work in textiles? Maybe finance or tech? And perhaps not even for a Polish company? (Not expecting an answer btw, too personal)
 

Tech for a global company. Only came to Lodz 10 years ago. Doubled in size in the last 3 years with plans to double again, entirely hiring those with language skills (pretty much everyone under 30 in Polish cities and less high numbers, but still high, elsewhere)

8 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

Being part of the EU is one thing; running your country under outdated, inflexible EU regulation is quite another. I hope it never happens because I love Poland but I am certainly concerned that EU and Polish politics/ideals will clash heavily in the future,

I don't share your concerns.

Poland is changing politically and the insane election of PiS in 2015/16 will accelerate that change tbh.

Edited March 20, 2017 by StefanAVFC

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Woah, woah woah woah woah... what!?

Where did I say that? I very clearly said that Poles are happy being part of the EU. I didn't mention the Euro and if there's any plans to switch to it, I haven't heard of them.

I've written a big post about this. For younger generations, people are moving to the cities or abroad. In places such as Lodz, or Krakow, big companies are moving here and offering well-paid jobs for those with language skills. The inequality in Poland is generational, definitely. So long term, Poland is doing fantastically.

To be honest with you, from my understanding, small towns and villages are where industry is dying out. But this is a global trend. Cities like Warsaw have already 'caught up' with regards to living standards. The EU is far from putting Poland into a downward spiral. They're only looking up. As I've stated previously on this forum, in the 2.5 years I've been here, Lodz has developed massively and all I see everywhere is building projects and infrastructure improvements. Low skilled wages are a serious problem here, but the level of young poles either in higher education or speaking English is that high, that people will find jobs easier than their parents who spoke only Polish. Rising costs of Polish homes, can't really comment. Rent hasn't gone up in the time I've been here and most middle class Poles build their own homes.

Tech for a global company. Only came to Lodz 10 years ago. Doubled in size in the last 3 years with plans to double again, entirely hiring those with language skills (pretty much everyone under 30 in Polish cities and less high numbers, but still high, elsewhere)

I don't share your concerns.

Poland is changing politically and the insane election of PiS in 2015/16 will accelerate that change tbh.

They have to join the Euro as that was the term of their membership (no date thank god).
Apologies, I assumed you were replying to that specifically as my original point was based around the Euro and major change delivering economic prosperity and security for its citizens. 

The inequality will continue without specific policy protecting certain roles and maybe even cities/towns. Those jobs for big companies will become redundant when new jobs move to the next tax break nation or next tax break job. How will Poland and the EU navigate that? 
In the long term, your generation (the modern skilled sector) will own Poland, are you going to give it up for the next generation of Poles? Or will you protect your increased wealth/house price/investments/job? 
 
Also the reduction of farming jobs (in modern counties esp.) is a global trend that has given rise to poverty and malnutrition. These are economic and cultural problems for Poland as I'm sure you know very well. Construction may very well be next if we're not careful.
In many ways Brexit was given its platform because of the lack of manual labour focus by the EU. The Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) certainly has its part to play there.

I'm glad you don't share my concerns but I'm v surprised you didn't know about the Euro. People are right to be baffled by PiS but they've made a few points that both Scotland and the EU really need to listen to.....we ignored the real opinions are now we're left with Brexit.
Imo an ignorant left is as bad as an ignorant right; I hope the Scottish people are aware of that because Sturgeon and May aren't.