Scottish Independence

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

As such, it would seem that they ought to at least ask for one in order to satisfy some of the people who voted for them.

Especially with 'observing manifesto commitments' being very much the in-thing these days 

[sharkyvilla]

It shouldn't be forgotten that the SNP actually lost their majority last year.  They need the Greens on side who said they'd need 1m signatures in support of a referendum.  It'll be interesting to see whether they bother with that.

[Demitri_C]

7 hours ago, snowychap said:

You may be right.

If that happens, though, after both sides have said that they want and expect (have almost promised?) the negotiations to be wrapped up with six months to spare then it surely won't be seen as anything else other than an utter shit show and could have May looking like the worst Prime Minister since, well, the last one.

And what about the two clowns before him? They were even worse! 

[Demitri_C]

Here's a question, so if Scotland does get the vote and they vote this time to leave the UK, how long dies the process take? Is it a two year process like when leave the eu? Or less?

[RimmyJimmer]

6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

With the best will in the world, you don't seem to understand what 'xenophobia' means. 

Dislike and/or prejudice of people from another country?

[TrentVilla]

2 hours ago, snowychap said:

They stood, in the last Scottish Elections, on a platform that said:

As such, it would seem that they ought to at least ask for one in order to satisfy some/most of the people who voted for them.

I didn't say they couldn't ask for one, I said they didn't have a right to one. Not the same thing.

[TrentVilla]

 

If the SNP had got the result they wanted on the independence referendum wouldn't that have resulted in Scotland leaving the EU?

[blandy]

In reply to Trent and Tony. Scotland will have a choice between staying part of the UK and being outside EU with a hard exit, or with leaving the UK  and staying in/re-joining (more likely) the EU.

There are a lot of unknowns, for sure - would the EU let them in, would they meet the conditions and would the likes of Spain allow them.

There's basically May and Sturgeon pulling in opposite directions, Sturgeon has always wanted Independence and May is helping her by following the hard brexit tory lunatic fringe and the Murdoch/Mail/Telegraph press demands.

The idea that Brexit should be triggered this month is foolish and totally arbitrary. A more sensible way would be to sort out a more widely acceptable form of brexit aims within the UK Gov'ts, accepting the help and advice of the Lords, the Scots, the NI parliament and Wales parliament and then, once things are clearer pressing the button. There'd be more time for people like David Davies and Liam Fox to actually work out details they've not even thought about to date.

May is being monumentally stupid and is making the whole venture much more risky than it need be and allowing the likes of the SNP to cause problems domestically.

[snowychap]

39 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I didn't say they could ask for one, I said they didn't have a right to one. Not the same thing.

Well, you actually spoke about a 'legitimate right' to one. It wasn't really clear what you meant by either what you said or what you have said now in the context of the SNP calling for another referendum and saying that they intend to put the question to the Scottish Parliament.

Edited March 17, 2017 by snowychap

[ml1dch]

36 minutes ago, blandy said:

There are a lot of unknowns, for sure - would the EU let them in, would they meet the conditions and would the likes of Spain allow them.

I'd be pretty surprised if at some point in the next six months there isn't a quote from a former commissioner somewhere saying how Scotland potentially joining wouldn't be the same as somebody new joining that didn't Scotland's previous history as part of the union. Even if it's nonsense, Scotland will be thrown every friendly word going to make it look like there'll be no problems.

Sturgeon's manoeuvres strengthen the EU's hand quite a bit, and May's strategy appears to be a new low in six months of nothing but lows.

Saying "we'll negotiate a (almost certainly terrible) deal and then Scotland has to decide what they want to do based on what we've negotiated" is really going to make the SNP want to play ball with the whole ridiculous enterprise isn't it?

She's basically saying to Sturgeon "the more you try to mess this up for everybody else, the more likely it is that the Scottish people will vote for what you want them to vote for".

*Slow hand clap*

Edited March 17, 2017 by ml1dch

[chrisp65]

North sea oil is running out. The oil price isn't great. Scotland will have a bugger of a time trying to explain what currency they'll be using. The jobs they'll lose in the military and the wages of workers at the navy dockyards. It's a mare. Independence would cost them money (not that money is the be all and end all, if 'freedom' is your thing).

Right now, the only tool Sturgeon appears to have at her disposal is May.

[HanoiVillan]

32 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

North sea oil is running out. The oil price isn't great. Scotland will have a bugger of a time trying to explain what currency they'll be using. The jobs they'll lose in the military and the wages of workers at the navy dockyards. It's a mare. Independence would cost them money (not that money is the be all and end all, if 'freedom' is your thing).

Right now, the only tool Sturgeon appears to have at her disposal is May.

Luckily, she's quite the tool. 

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

Luckily, she's quite the tool. 

I don't just throw this shit together, you know.

[Awol]

11 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

It shouldn't be forgotten that the SNP actually lost their majority last year.  They need the Greens on side who said they'd need 1m signatures in support of a referendum.  It'll be interesting to see whether they bother with that.

Yes and also worth noting that Tory Ruth Davidson has a higher approval rating than Sturgeon,  pretty incredible turn around.

If the SNP fear poor domestic delivery catching up with them at the next Holyrood election in 2021 then it might be a 'use it or lose it' mentality to push for Indyref2 now. 

[PompeyVillan]

Another 'remain' independence referendum result could damage the legitimacy of the SNP.

The party of independence that Scotland doesn't want. I'd call Stugeons bluff and let them have another referendum asap.

If the Scottish people want independence they should have it.

 

[snowychap]

36 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Another 'remain' independence referendum result could damage the legitimacy of the SNP.

The party of independence that Scotland doesn't want. I'd call Stugeons bluff and let them have another referendum asap.

There could well be a reason why May and the Tory party wouldn't welcome the collapse of the SNP.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

14 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

North sea oil is running out. The oil price isn't great. Scotland will have a bugger of a time trying to explain what currency they'll be using. The jobs they'll lose in the military and the wages of workers at the navy dockyards. It's a mare. Independence would cost them money (not that money is the be all and end all, if 'freedom' is your thing).

Right now, the only tool Sturgeon appears to have at her disposal is May.

You forgot "Shortbread" & "Tarten".  Game changers,  who needs oil when these can easily be combined in a box, shortbread & Tarten combo (She can use this if she is reading this,  which we know she is).  There is loads of other stuff that they are really good at and can be exported.like erm,  you know.    

I suggest that Sturgeon is slightly less mentally stable than myself and I suspect that even now when she hears "Crackerjack" the old memories come flooding back.  Nobody ever asks how she ended up dressed as a little boy and I don't want to know at this point.  Anyone else but her and I would have said give it a go but i find her blinkered view just what we dont need at the moment when flexibility and compromise need to be the start point for Brexit etc.  Not "I want this and I want it now "FREEEEEEDOM"" bolox from her.  Bitter,  I think so. ,Sucking a lemon permanently she is hmm the tarten is strong in her,  Sturgeon has actually got lips like Angelina Jolie but due to the deep "Bitterization" and jealousy (Like, to the core of her Bitter Krankie self) most of her lips have turn inward and thus the feeding through a straw thing like a pet mouse in a London ruled cage with a little water pot where people drop lucky coins in with the Queens head on.  Some land on little Sturgeon a swell.  She's not into that.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Amsterdam_Neil_D

[PompeyVillan]

47 minutes ago, snowychap said:

There could well be a reason why May and the Tory party wouldn't welcome the collapse of the SNP.

Possibly, but Labour are dead in Scotland.

[HanoiVillan]

7 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Possibly, but Labour are dead in Scotland.

That's one of those comments that's 'true until it isn't'. 

[Awol]

1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

You forgot "Shortbread" & "Tarten".  Game changers,  who needs oil when these can easily be combined in a box, shortbread & Tarten combo (She can use this if she is reading this,  which we know she is).  There is loads of other stuff that they are really good at and can be exported.like erm,  you know.    

I suggest that Sturgeon is slightly less mentally stable than myself and I suspect that even now when she hears "Crackerjack" the old memories come flooding back.  Nobody ever asks how she ended up dressed as a little boy and I don't want to know at this point.  Anyone else but her and I would have said give it a go but i find her blinkered view just what we dont need at the moment when flexibility and compromise need to be the start point for Brexit etc.  Not "I want this and I want it now "FREEEEEEDOM"" bolox from her.  Bitter,  I think so. ,Sucking a lemon permanently she is hmm the tarten is strong in her,  Sturgeon has actually got lips like Angelina Jolie but due to the deep "Bitterization" and jealousy (Like, to the core of her Bitter Krankie self) most of her lips have turn inward and thus the feeding through a straw thing like a pet mouse in a London ruled cage with a little water pot where people drop lucky coins in with the Queens head on.  Some land on little Sturgeon a swell.  She's not into that.

Okay, but what do you really think?