Bollitics The new leader of the Labour Party

[snowychap]

The biggest saving would be to drop the green tax at 11%

The biggest saving to whom?

You wouldn't expect the energy companies to chomp that up with an increased margin?

[drat01]

 

 

 

drat01, on 26 Sept 2013 - 2:05 PM, said:

 

If VT allowed it I wonder how many would actually post something attacking Milliband for being Jewish? 

 

 

wow  .. an all time low in a long long long  list of lows

 

Not really - the undertone to posts on here - and some on other forums that I have seen certainly backs up the tone of what I am saying. You may not like the fact Tony but it's pretty clear to see what certain people actually feel but neither have the conviction nor (fortunately) the right to say it on here.  

 

 

What have other forums got to with here?  If you're going to imply that people are racist, why don't YOU have the conviction to come out and say it?

 

Because that is certainly against the rules of VT. If you don't believe that certain posters on here have views that cross the borderlines of what is correct and civil then fair enough that is your choice. Others may disagree with you, but all posts have to be undertaken by the rules of the forum. 

[snowychap]

The onus is really on the user to alter the figure

No it isn't.

If the meters are read then the bill should be done on the (correct) actual figure. To continue to bill on an estimate should get the company fined by Ofgem; to intentionally bill on an inaccurate actual figure in order to overcharge ought to see people facing criminal charges.

Edit: I see that was covered a few hours ago by Bicks.

Edited September 26, 2013 by snowychap

[tonyh29]

Edit: I see that was covered a few hours ago by Bicks.

You'll be stealing jokes from Drat next

[snowychap]

Swine.

[blandy]

 

The biggest saving would be to drop the green tax at 11%

The biggest saving to whom?

You wouldn't expect the energy companies to chomp that up with an increased margin?

 

The issue of subsidies for power is ,massively complicated. I've been reading about it on that internet, that they have.

It seems that the most subsidised fuel type is coal. Nuclear has fewest subsidies, but things are excluded - like decommisioning costs, and waste storage costs - they don't count as "subsidies", but they still get paid by the taxpayer.

There are plenty of studies which show that renewables is the least expensive way ahead, and that's before the job creation is taken into account, or the effects ofcarbon dioxied and of drilling for oil and of deforestation and pollution and so on.

 

Stuuf that runs out, like Gas and Oil, at some point we'll cross the peak - where what's left is less than what we use will occur, then prices will become astronomical. Investing in stuff that doesn't run out saves us that proble, if we do it.

 

But Oil companies don't profit from it in the same way, so the politicians they pay for just deny there's an issue with Oil, until something like the BP/Halliburton disaster in the U.S., when they blame anyone but themselves.

my keyboard is dodgy, sorry.

[peterms]

 

 

The biggest saving would be to drop the green tax at 11%

The biggest saving to whom?

You wouldn't expect the energy companies to chomp that up with an increased margin?

 

The issue of subsidies for power is ,massively complicated. I've been reading about it on that internet, that they have.

It seems that the most subsidised fuel type is coal. Nuclear has fewest subsidies, but things are excluded - like decommisioning costs, and waste storage costs - they don't count as "subsidies", but they still get paid by the taxpayer.

There are plenty of studies which show that renewables is the least expensive way ahead, and that's before the job creation is taken into account, or the effects ofcarbon dioxied and of drilling for oil and of deforestation and pollution and so on.

 

Stuuf that runs out, like Gas and Oil, at some point we'll cross the peak - where what's left is less than what we use will occur, then prices will become astronomical. Investing in stuff that doesn't run out saves us that proble, if we do it.

 

But Oil companies don't profit from it in the same way, so the politicians they pay for just deny there's an issue with Oil, until something like the BP/Halliburton disaster in the U.S., when they blame anyone but themselves.

my keyboard is dodgy, sorry.

 

 

Well, quite.

 

See you at the next Green Party conference.  I can share a new pattern for knitting yogurt. 

[peterms]

 

Edit: I see that was covered a few hours ago by Bicks.

You'll be stealing jokes from Drat next

 

 

In all seriousness, I would strongly advise against doing that.  For all our sakes.

[bickster]

This whole One Nation thing, no-one appears to have picked up on the fact that it is a Tory concept first introduced into politics by Disraeli.

Further proof if any were needed that Labour are still Tory-lite, they've moved slightly to the left but are still firmly just another Tory party.

[Awol]

 

 

 

 

drat01, on 26 Sept 2013 - 2:05 PM, said:

 

If VT allowed it I wonder how many would actually post something attacking Milliband for being Jewish? 

 

 

wow  .. an all time low in a long long long  list of lows

 

Not really - the undertone to posts on here - and some on other forums that I have seen certainly backs up the tone of what I am saying. You may not like the fact Tony but it's pretty clear to see what certain people actually feel but neither have the conviction nor (fortunately) the right to say it on here.  

 

 

What have other forums got to with here?  If you're going to imply that people are racist, why don't YOU have the conviction to come out and say it?

 

Because that is certainly against the rules of VT. If you don't believe that certain posters on here have views that cross the borderlines of what is correct and civil then fair enough that is your choice. Others may disagree with you, but all posts have to be undertaken by the rules of the forum. 

 

So, it is possible for you to discern that certain posters, who you may never have met, are racist/homophobic/anti-semitic by the fact that they don't post such comments on VT.

 

This is further supported by the fact you have read racist/homophobic/anti-semitic comments elsewhere on the World Wide Web, therefore demonstrating that Off Topic is populated by repressed wrong 'uns.

 

As you say, that's pretty clear evidence.

[drat01]

Interesting the comments you make again AWOL. The fact they have nothing to do with what I have said are a different matter but I am sure you are happy 

 

Anyway back to the topic in hand. Seems like the Labour leadership (which this thread is about - not the race, colour, religion, father's history ..... ooops who brought that up) are really gettuing to the Tory party and it's supporters. Maybe we will see more comments come out that reveal more of the reasons why people are afraid of them 

[Awol]

Well I can't speak for the Tory supporters, but far from being afraid those that I know are frankly thrilled by the way Miliband is performing. His drift to the left away from the political centre ground is a gift for the coalition they have done nothing to earn but will no doubt gratefully accept.  

 

In Labour's hands the slogan of "One Nation" is as empty and meaningless as the Tory "Big Society" slogan and as Bickster points out, is actually a rip off of historical Tory language. The difference is that the Tory definition of "One Nation" politics was to ensure the poor were not left behind as the country industrialised and to ensure the wealthier recognised their obligations to the less well off - since abandoned in the pursuit of a more brutal free market capitalism, Neo-Conservatism if you will.

 

Miliband has twisted that and is using the "One Nation" slogan as a vehicle to try and set up a rich vs poor dichotomy, rather than trying to bind the nation together despite the differences in financial means. It's good old fashioned class war Labour stuff that appeals to the tribal and vindictive core vote, while making everyone else want to vomit.

 

Long may Miliband continue as Labour leader.   

[drat01]

Interesting article in the Indy today which sort of pisses on Tory claims and those claiming not to be Tories but with Right wing views

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ed-miliband-is-no-more-red-than-the-tony-blair-that-won-the-1997-general-election-8842155.html

[Awol]

Interesting article in the Indy today which sort of pisses on Tory claims and those claiming not to be Tories but with Right wing views

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ed-miliband-is-no-more-red-than-the-tony-blair-that-won-the-1997-general-election-8842155.html

Written by Andrew Adonis, Blair's policy chief... It is, like all political statements, an opinion (not exactly an objective one either) not fact.

 

Also, you do realise that it's possible to be left or right of centre without being slavishly wedded to either Labour or the Tories, don't you?  That kind of tribal thinking went out with the Ark.

 

EDIT: slepping

Edited September 27, 2013 by Awol

[drat01]

 

Interesting article in the Indy today which sort of pisses on Tory claims and those claiming not to be Tories but with Right wing views

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ed-miliband-is-no-more-red-than-the-tony-blair-that-won-the-1997-general-election-8842155.html

Written by Andrew Adonis, Blair's policy chief... It is, like all political statements, an opinion (not exactly an objective one either) not fact.

 

Also, you do realise that it's possible to be left or right of centre without being slavishly wedded to either Labour or the Tories, don't you?  That kind of tribal thinking went out with the Ark.

 

EDIT: slepping

 

 

Shakes head  

[Awol]

 

 

Interesting article in the Indy today which sort of pisses on Tory claims and those claiming not to be Tories but with Right wing views

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ed-miliband-is-no-more-red-than-the-tony-blair-that-won-the-1997-general-election-8842155.html

Written by Andrew Adonis, Blair's policy chief... It is, like all political statements, an opinion (not exactly an objective one either) not fact.

 

Also, you do realise that it's possible to be left or right of centre without being slavishly wedded to either Labour or the Tories, don't you?  That kind of tribal thinking went out with the Ark.

 

EDIT: slepping

 

 

Shakes head  

 

Let me know if anything falls out.

[Demitri_C]

haha that made me laugh AWOL

Edited September 27, 2013 by Demitri_C

[tonyh29]

Typical lazy Boris , taking about a week to reply but an interesting (if slightly biased) insight into Ed and his band wagon policies

 

 

Quote

I don’t think I have ever told you about my last official meeting with Ed Miliband. I must have somehow blanked it out, as one of those experiences that is just too harrowing to relate. It took place a few years ago, and my City Hall team was very excited in the run-up. We had an absolute corker of a plan, you see. We had the spreadsheets, the data, the options – and all we really needed was for Government to get behind it, and make sure that London got its fair share of the funding.

We were going to launch a huge drive to improve the energy efficiency in the capital’s homes. We were going to hit all sorts of nails pretty smartly on the head: we were going to cut CO₂ emissions, and thereby stop the polar bears from plopping off the ice floes. We were going to cut NO₂ emissions from our noisome old boilers, and so improve air quality. We were going to help get thousands of people into work as retro-fitters – people who went around helping to insulate homes.

As I told my team during the preparations, Britain might be lagging in some respects, but once our programme was under way we would certainly not be lagging in lagging. Above all, we were going to achieve the number one objective of the scheme: we were going to help cut the cost of heating people’s homes and help stabilise fuel bills.

I was interested in the plan as a way of helping the planet and helping people in tough times. As for Ed – well, it was, frankly, a bit disheartening. He wasn’t remotely interested. He didn’t want to talk about retro-fitting and, as I gabbled away about a new legion of “boiler bunnies” bouncing up to your door, I was aware that a deep tranquillity had settled on the minister.

He didn’t want to talk about cutting the cost of living. He just wanted to trade jokes about the forthcoming general election; and as one of my team put it later: “He was only vaguely in command of his brief and had no  interest in achieving anything.” We wrote a long and optimistic follow-up letter, hoping that perhaps he had been taking it in. Nada. Not a peep.

 

So now that he is in opposition, and struggling with his ratings, I find it rather incredible that he can seriously pretend to want to do something for the hard-pressed energy consumers in this country, and I find it astounding that so many people are falling for his Wonga-like offer.

 

 

more on the link but it's mainly Boris waffling on as he does

Edited October 2, 2013 by tonyh29

[Awol]

The one that made me laugh was his conference announcement that Labour would force companies hiring a foreign worker to also hire a "British" youngster at the same time to be trained alongside them. Obviously didn't think it through very deeply as it was abandoned the following day for being against EU law. Not as good as knocking over 1 billion pounds off the stock market in a day with his energy price fixing announcement, or indeed promising that the State would seize lawfully held private property if its owners weren't doing what Labour wanted with it.

 

Mulitimillionaireband is a chimp and Labour are scum.*

 

 

 

*I don't actually mean that but seemingly it's the kind idiotic generalisation people post on politics threads these days.

[tonyh29]

Awol, on 02 Oct 2013 - 2:21 PM, said:

The one that made me laugh was his conference announcement that Labour would force companies hiring a foreign worker to also hire a "British" youngster at the same time to be trained alongside them. Obviously didn't think it through very deeply as it was abandoned the following day for being against EU law. Not as good as knocking over 1 billion pounds off the stock market in a day with his energy price fixing announcement, or indeed promising that the State would seize lawfully held private property if its owners weren't doing what Labour wanted with it.

 

Mulitimillionaireband is a chimp and Labour are scum.*

 

 

 

*I don't actually mean that but seemingly it's the kind idiotic generalisation people post on politics threads these days.

 

 

Yeah I did comment on that one  .. needless to say a labour supporter defended it as a good idea