TrentVilla Posted December 6, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 6, 2011 I don't want McLeish but that isn't enough to make me want Houllier back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Villa are not going to be relegated I'm not convinced. Genuinely. Convince me. Sadly neither am I, it isn't likely but I'd still not rule it out especially when you see this little stat. McLeish - Blues after 14 games last season: P14 W3 D7 L4. Villa after 14 games this season: P14 W3 D7 L4 How unlikely is it though? We've had a terribly kind run of fixtures so far. Wigan look to be the leagues whipping boys no doubt which leaves two places up for grabs. Having watched Wolves fight back against Sunderland the weekend I happen to believe they have enough. Blackburn are extremely hit and miss I agree, but they do have talent in the likes of Rochina. Sunderland will be fine under 'him' and I think Bolton have had some terrible luck at times this season. I just don't know. I think it's wide open. Outside the top 7 or 8 clubs the league is in an awful state. We will likely end up with 5 or 6 teams in a dog fight come the final day again. Under a better manager and with a much better squad we were not a million miles away last season. We're in trouble and there's **** all we can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I don't want McLeish but that isn't enough to make me want Houllier back. But with Houllier we'll probably be safe in the Premier League, have us play good football, bring out the best of the kids and get rid of the troublemakers who's contracts are running low. Surely you would want all that back at the expense of Houllier? I mean we can't be fussy. It's all wishful thinking anyway. It's a lesson learnt (for me anyway) the grass isn't always greener on the other side. And after that saying that, if the board did get rid of McLeish, they could get someone even worse like Grant. I just don't know anymore. I'm really hopeful one day Randy will sell. Not because he isn't splashing the cash and I'd hate to see him give any more money to AM who'll just waste it. No, it's because he is clearly out of his depth when it comes to Sport and will probably ruin us if he remains here for a few more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Trent - what were the figures after 15 games? What's the betting that Bolton will draw their first game this season on Saturday? If we win, I think coyle will be gone and Hughes will take over. I don't think we will be relegated, but, could be close. I think Wigan, Blackburn and either Bolton or Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I criticised Houllier a lot but he did have terrible injury problems , he didn't start the season etc. And whilst we were terrible at times we at least did try to keep possesion. We were awful in some games but there were some very good games like the home game to Man U 2-2 draw. Compare that game to the one just gone. It would have been interesting at least to see what he might have tried to do in the transfer window and in longterm. Theres nothing interesting about McCrap. We already knew what a chore it would be with him and so far hes been comitting crimes against football with us to be blunt. Houllier was past it , McCrap is just crap. Very crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 6, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 6, 2011 There is nothing that would make me want Houllier back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 6, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted December 6, 2011 I really wish houllier was still here... collins, dunne, ireland, would all be gone. We‘d play it out from the back. We'd actually set our teams up for bent to score. Albrighton, bannan and clark would all be playing more and in better form cos we'd actually play to their strengths. . We‘d actually play to win and try and pass the ball. Which right now would be so good to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 There is a reverberation of truth in McLeish's style of Football being similar to Mourinho. There was a train of thought where people started to realise that pretty Football is actually counter-productive, and actually sometimes, the more direct the Football, the more effective it is. But obviously if it's only direct Football with no other tactics then it's fruitless. Charles Reep, Graham Taylor, the Swedish national Football team, Roy Hodgson, Alex Ferguson, Alex McLeish and many others all subscribe to the same direct pragmatic approach which you could say Mourinho practises. Each have their own way of setting their teams up around being direct, and some have been lucky to have employed it at the right time to build successes in their teams. I don't actually think the current poor displays by Villa are really that much down to McLeish. To me it's just a manifestation of some limited-skilled players without confidence trying too hard. McLeish was guilty of playing very direct with SHA, but he's repeatedly stated that he had to with the resources at his disposal. You could argue that he overachieved with what he had to work with and if he'd tried to play a more expansive passing game his players weren't ready for it. I believe that MON was and still is such an encyclopaedia of Football that he goes above the aforementioned managers in his understanding of the game. The wing-play along with being direct is a modern interpretation of Reep and Taylor's methods, and something that Ferguson has also taken on board. Houllier came in and agreed with the board that our best way to compete against the money-endowed big boys was to use our best asset; our youth. The MON, Robertson and Walford regime was old-fashioned with regards to fitness which is why our injury list suddenly shot up when Houllier brought in a proper fitness regime with Duverne bringing them up to modern standards of fitness. After the injury crisis subsided and we had the best players back, we actually started to look a very good team and were playing some good Football but the results were slow to come. We ended up finishing fairly respectably, but I really think we were robbed of a great period of success with Houllier's heart problems, as the youth was coming through, everyone was much more comfortable with the ball and it actually looked like Young and Downing weren't really required, as the wing play was less of a factor and we were playing well through the middle. Which is why I thought the best person to carry that on was Martinez. Unfortunately that wasn't to be. I'm not sure why the board employed McLeish. Although before he was appointed he was seen as a decent manager afflicted with a poor club, poor board, and poor players. He regularly came off worse against MON in the old firm encounters and the Birmingham derbies but again, MON always had the better teams. SHA beat us a few times last season under Houllier which showed he was at least a solid manager, but again the shenanigans going on at board level there gave him a great excuse. Now he's here and in this situation it's nigh on impossible for him to climb out of it. Ferguson was right when he told McLeish to just keep on going, as it's actually just the player's confidence and mood which is causing the poor Football as of late, and the only thing he can do is to just keep on, wait for the confidence to come back and then the performances and results pick up. The manager can't actually influence it to the degree that people think and expect. If we give McLeish time we'll be finishing where we should be with the players we have - upper mid-table. But I don't think he's got that time. I would have liked someone to come in and continue Houllier's work and I still do. I'd feel sorry for McLeish because he's been handed a shit-covered baton, but the realism is that when no-one outside the top 6 can challenge the top 6, then we may as well see some nice Football on display when winning, losing and drawing games in equal share. There's no need for pragmatism in the money-driven modern game, there is a need to entertain the masses. Even if McLeish decides this is the way, the mood around the club and players is far too low for this to happen without major changes which is why I think he's the sacrifice which needs to happen for us to move onwards. Unless we get a radically modern manager, nothing much will change and we'll go through the same cycle again with someone like Hughes. Lambert is a decent shout, but I think a continental manager such as Benitez is the best way to go from here. I think the next few games are absolutely key. Lose them all and Lerner has no choice but to move McLeish on, do well against some of the big boys (which I think we will do), then Lerner has a good reason to give him the rest of the season and the start of next as it's very unlikely we'll go down. A pay-off of around £4m to McLeish is nothing compared to the cost of relegation, but it's a fortune if it means nothing changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamosMiAstonVilla Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Houliier 10 times the manager Mcleish will ever be. I was gutted when he left but obviously circumstances dictated he couldn't continue. The treatment he got from the fans was a disgrace ironically the same ones who now want Mcleish out and probably wanted MON out as well - morons who don't understand football. Benitez probably the best available manager at the moment but doubt he'd come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 There is nothing that would make me want Houllier back.Would you prefer McLeish over Houllier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Houliier 10 times the manager Mcleish will ever be. I was gutted when he left but obviously circumstances dictated he couldn't continue. The treatment he got from the fans was a disgrace ironically the same ones who now want Mcleish out and probably wanted MON out as well - morons who don't understand football. I didn't want MON out, I did want Houllier out and I definitely want McLeish out. What does that make me? Half a moron? What's ironic about thinking that neither man is good enough for our club, albeit for entirely different reasons. The results were just as poor under Gerard. I would dread to see what he would do with no money. The major difference being at least I'd be able to watch us play without wanting to gouge my eyes out with a small woodland creature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamosMiAstonVilla Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I don't want to bring all this up again as we had a full summer of it but Houllier had a blue-print and was building something and was finding out the trouble causers, the lazy ones who didn't care etc Now when people say they didn't want him and now they are saying they don't want Mcleish it makes it look like we are the problem especially as many didn't want MON either. Like Barry Fry said: Who do they want? A healthy Houllier would have been great for this club. For me those who deny this lack footballing knowledge and I can't take their opinion seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 There is nothing that makes me want houllier back. Our best player would probably not be here if that prick was still in charge. There wouldn't be much difference to now, just the midfield would pass it too each other a bit more before giving it away and then conceding a shit goal. The shit this season doesn't make the shit last season enjoyable all of a sudden imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 A healthy Houllier would have been great for this club. For me those who deny this lack integrity and I can't take their opinion seriously. Then I, personally, would rather you didn't post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 There is nothing that makes me want houllier back. Our best player would probably not be here if that prick was still in charge. There wouldn't be much difference to now, just the midfield would pass it too each other a bit more before giving it away and then conceding a shit goal. The shit this season doesn't make the shit last season enjoyable all of a sudden imoAs I said in the other thread, we weren't Barcelona but it was still far better than what we have now. I think people are underestimating just how bad the football is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I'll take Mcleish with gabby over houllier and gabby being sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Villan Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think we were going down the pan with either of them. Houllier had football knowledge. So what? Plenty have good managers habe gone shit towards the end of their careers, even though they had much more 'knowledge' of the game than they did when they were more successful. Just because he was experience doesn't mean we would have been doing any better under Houllier than McLeish. We'd have passed the ball a bit more, but still have played a pretty negative game. It's a slight improvement on what we have now, but not enough for me to wish he was still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamosMiAstonVilla Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I'll take Mcleish with gabby over houllier and gabby being sold. I'd take a winning team without Gabby over a mediocre team with Gabby :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamosMiAstonVilla Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 A healthy Houllier would have been great for this club. For me those who deny this lack integrity and I can't take their opinion seriously. Then I, personally, would rather you didn't post here. I'm sorry, your stance on Houllier have rendered your opinions null and void, including this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I'll take Mcleish with gabby over houllier and gabby being sold. I'd take a winning team without Gabby over a mediocre team with Gabby :winkold: As would I. Now if only Lerner could appoint a manager to achieve this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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