Risso Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm going to live a life of wanton debauchery, then convert to Christianity in the last few seconds before I croak. You know, just in case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I'm going to live a life of wanton debauchery I once knew a chap who wanted to live his life to that exact creed. Unfortunately, he was dyslexic and was ultimately arrested when he was found sexually violating certain foodstuffs in the kitchens of a Chinese restaurant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 My personal belief, (thought), is that everyone will get saved in the end. Having stayed out of posting in this thread (mostly for the fact that it's almost impossible to have a reasoned debate) I'm somewhat surprised that this particular quote is the one that makes me break my vow of silence. SnC, if you believe in the bible (which I don't believe is in doubt from the previous 100 pages), I'm amazed at how you can hold this view. As you are a fan of quoting the bible, I thought I'd give you John 14:6: "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I'd have thought it pretty clear, if you want to get God, you have to believe in his son. I don't see how you could believe in the bible and believe other than this. Its very hard to explain.. One man dosnt believe in Jesus v a man that does.. Something in the life of either person triggered that way of thought/belief. So who's fault is it they gained this thought/belief, the man or the trigger? Adam fell for the trigger right at the very start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 My personal belief, (thought), is that everyone will get saved in the end. Having stayed out of posting in this thread (mostly for the fact that it's almost impossible to have a reasoned debate) I'm somewhat surprised that this particular quote is the one that makes me break my vow of silence. SnC, if you believe in the bible (which I don't believe is in doubt from the previous 100 pages), I'm amazed at how you can hold this view. As you are a fan of quoting the bible, I thought I'd give you John 14:6: "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I'd have thought it pretty clear, if you want to get God, you have to believe in his son. I don't see how you could believe in the bible and believe other than this. Its very hard to explain.. One man dosnt believe in Jesus v a man that does.. Something in the life of either person triggered that way of thought/belief. So who's fault is it they gained this thought/belief, the man or the trigger? Adam fell for the trigger right at the very start... For the majority it's what Dawkins rightly decribes as a hereditary virus. I didn't choose to be baptised Catholic. My parents decided for me. When I was old enough to discern I rejected religion. It has been my experience(particularly in Ireland) that many people who count themeselves as belonging to a particular faith but "don't really believe" continue to christen their children,get married in church service, do so as a sense of tradition, or that it's the done thing. As for people who become religious in adult life, there is strong evidence that points to particular personality types being more susceptible/predisposed to accept religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 My personal belief, (thought), is that everyone will get saved in the end. Having stayed out of posting in this thread (mostly for the fact that it's almost impossible to have a reasoned debate) I'm somewhat surprised that this particular quote is the one that makes me break my vow of silence. SnC, if you believe in the bible (which I don't believe is in doubt from the previous 100 pages), I'm amazed at how you can hold this view. As you are a fan of quoting the bible, I thought I'd give you John 14:6: "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I'd have thought it pretty clear, if you want to get God, you have to believe in his son. I don't see how you could believe in the bible and believe other than this. Its very hard to explain.. One man dosnt believe in Jesus v a man that does.. Something in the life of either person triggered that way of thought/belief. So who's fault is it they gained this thought/belief, the man or the trigger? Adam fell for the trigger right at the very start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 My personal belief, (thought), is that everyone will get saved in the end. So really, what's the point in following the Bilble now, wouldn't it just be better to have some FUN!!! You'll be saved anyway! Living the way of the bible can give you more than fun..To live a life helping others makes you feel worthwhile. It gives you a great sense of purpose in the world. Missionary work in Africa, or charity work where you help and bring a smile to someone's face, can give you far more to your inner self than any drugs, sex, etc can. Or live your life having fun and being nice and being worthwhile. can give to charity, take time helping others and in general be a very good person without going by what the bible says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 My personal belief, (thought), is that everyone will get saved in the end. So really, what's the point in following the Bilble now, wouldn't it just be better to have some FUN!!! You'll be saved anyway! Living the way of the bible can give you more than fun..To live a life helping others makes you feel worthwhile. It gives you a great sense of purpose in the world. Missionary work in Africa, or charity work where you help and bring a smile to someone's face, can give you far more to your inner self than any drugs, sex, etc can. Or live your life having fun and being nice and being worthwhile. can give to charity, take time helping others and in general be a very good person without going by what the bible says. This is acceptable if you still donate a large proportion of your earnings to the Church. Otherwise... straight to hell boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 My personal belief, (thought), is that everyone will get saved in the end. Having stayed out of posting in this thread (mostly for the fact that it's almost impossible to have a reasoned debate) I'm somewhat surprised that this particular quote is the one that makes me break my vow of silence. SnC, if you believe in the bible (which I don't believe is in doubt from the previous 100 pages), I'm amazed at how you can hold this view. As you are a fan of quoting the bible, I thought I'd give you John 14:6: "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I'd have thought it pretty clear, if you want to get God, you have to believe in his son. I don't see how you could believe in the bible and believe other than this. Its very hard to explain.. One man dosnt believe in Jesus v a man that does.. Something in the life of either person triggered that way of thought/belief. So who's fault is it they gained this thought/belief, the man or the trigger? Adam fell for the trigger right at the very start... For the majority it's what Dawkins rightly decribes as a hereditary virus. I didn't choose to be baptised Catholic. My parents decided for me. When I was old enough to discern I rejected religion. It has been my experience(particularly in Ireland) that many people who count themeselves as belonging to a particular faith but "don't really believe" continue to christen their children,get married in church service, do so as a sense of tradition, or that it's the done thing. As for people who become religious in adult life, there is strong evidence that points to particular personality types being more susceptible/predisposed to accept religion. Im talking ALL through life of mankind, all through life in the bible....From the very start Adam didnt listen to God and its trickled down ever since...Its written down from the very start. We knew this way before Dawkins came about.. Why do think God made the flood in the 1st place? Why do think he made strict with laws and regulations in Leviticus? Why do think he gave us Jesus? All the time its to try and save us..Teach us...Yet all the time we still turned to sin as a whole, as a creation..Like Adam, we are destined to turn against God and lean towards sin...The bible is dead right in what it says..Our hearts are sick, wicked, sinful etc.. Man's behaviour is worst than animals and its the human race that is destroying and having so little respect of the world/universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 If you are only "good" because you seek reward or fear punishment ( i.e. heaven and hell )then you aren't really being good at all. Atheistic morality is far far greater then theocratic morality . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Atheistic morality is far far greater then theocratic morality . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 15, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2011 You are Julie, your posts in this thread have shown it. You are just unable or unwilling it see it, probably a bit of both which is why you keep avoiding direct questions. You seem to think that your beliefs make your bigoted views ok, that it makes them legitimate well it doesn't. You have said that gay people in your eyes and the eyes of your church are immoral or have lower morals than straight people. That is bigoted. JWs don't smoke... JWs don't sleep around...JWs aren't theives JWs aren't homosexuals.... So what?????? I don't smoke, I don't sleep around, I'm not a theif and I'm not gay. I'm a not a JW you don't have to be a JW to fit this blue print of moral code of yours, yet in your eyes and that of the church I'm probably deemed to be of lower morals than JW's. Anyway none of this has anything to do with anything. Am I a bigot towards smokers... in that I won't allow anyone to smoke in my house... am I a bigot because I wouldn't let my daughter sleep with her BF in my house.... am I a bigot because I wouldn't allow homosexuals in my house sleep together??!! Would you invite a homosexual couple to dinner in your home Julie? You never did answer that one did you. Many of my male colleagues who have no beleif in God are homophobes they are always making jokes about fags, dykes etc. So what???? This has literally nothing to do with anything. I'm not saying you are the only bigoted person in the world or that only religious people are bigoted. What on earth has this got to do with anything. I have clients who are lesbian... do I treat them any different.. NO Whilst male colleagues ask me for any photos etc etc??!! Round and round we go.... you are very good at missing the point aren't you. It doesn't matter if you treat them the same in a work situation or any situation for that matter it is how you view them. I did not try and turn the conversation away from homosexuality... I was turning it away because everyone was upset about S&Cs post about beastiality and child molestation in comparison to homosexuality.... Ok lets say you did. Did you agree with him? If not why not? Don't worry I don't actually expect you to answer. You know darn well I've worked with sexual abused young adults and many of them are homosexual or bi-sexual...Did I have to??!!.... NO... If I was a bigot then why would I take up that as a volunteer dealing with personality disorders, self harm and post traumatic stress disorder?? I don't know. Perhaps you were trying to get them to become ex homosexuals to save them so they could come to your church. Some of the posts on here are appalling. If they were aimed at a black person and deemed racist VT would ban the poster! I'm really not sure you are in a position to be trying to take the moral high ground Julie. If you have a problem with moderation please take it up with a moderator but please stop passing comment (judgement) on it within threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 OK so, it goes something like this : 1. You're born 2. 'Original sin' TM is installed in you 3. You live and you sin, because all people sin 4. You die and get judged 5. Sometimes your sins are fogiven and you enter heaven, else you go to hell Q : Which sins get forgiven and which do not? For example, someone kills a person ( or steals something or whatever ), does 20 years in jail, converts to hardcore christian and prays for forgiveness every day and lives according to all bible moral codes. Is he forgiven? And if yes, then how is he better than a person who's only bad deed is having sex before marriage or working on a saturday? Or does this sin get forgiven also? All sins will be forgiven so long as you repent, pray and have faith in Jesus Christ. You also have to try and fight off temptation to sin.. In answer to the question regarding the murderer, yes he will be forgiven and saved. My personal belief, (thought), is that everyone will get saved in the end. So, a murderer who repents in the final hours of his life is a better person than a guy who's only sin is sleeping with his gf before marriage, but would not repent? The first one goes to heaven and the second one - to hell. Nice god you have. Fair and square shit right there. Tbh, even we assume you're right and this god exists, then he's a proper **** up bastard and the last thing he deserves is being adored and worshipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 15, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2011 So if we're all saved, we can just do whatever the **** we like? I'm going raping tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCLaura Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 So if we're all saved, we can just do whatever the **** we like? I'm going raping tonight! Ha! I hope you missed a 'P' out. That may be the most controversial post I have ever seen you make and I love that thread for this reason. Now lets throw the book at you. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 So if we're all saved, we can just do whatever the **** we like? I'm going raping tonight! Yes, but rapey Tuesday has always been a weekly treat for a while now hasn't it Steveo? Can't see it'll make any difference to you now you know that invisble bloke with a beard now says he'll let you off if you ask nicely...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 15, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2011 Now lets throw the book at you. 8) I've got a bible going spare will that do? Seriously Laura, haven't you heard of rapey Tuesdays? Oh they're great then you have Sorry Wednesday's and by Thursday everything is forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCLaura Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Now lets throw the book at you. 8) I've got a bible going spare will that do? Seriously Laura, haven't you heard of rapey Tuesdays? Oh they're great then you have Sorry Wednesday's and by Thursday everything is forgiven. My mate had his nose broken after someone threw a bible at his head and he didn't duck in time. *facepsalm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 15, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2011 *facepsalm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 15, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2011 My mate had his nose broken after someone threw a bible at his head and he didn't duck in time. *facepsalm* Nice work...very very nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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