Ratings and reactions: Sunderland 2-2 Villa

[CBGB]

We were the better team all game, so the fact we couldn't hold onto a lead for the last few minutes was very disappointing.

A little better from N'zogbia, but he's still not effective. Hutton was a bit sloppy as usual. But Petrov was excellent, Herd pretty decent, Agbonlahor lively. Overall we were pretty solid and, except for a horrible miss by Bent and a horrible defensive lapse by Collins, this would have been a comfortable win.

Work to do.

[parisvilla]

Gab-Dogg excellent again.

[TRO]

So Mcleish is not exactly full flavour at the moment.... and the 2 that got away was a blessing too i suspect.

we ain't too good at talent spotting, are we?

[chappy]

My patience is reaching the end of its tether.

Mcleish is so tactically **** clueless. The game was crying out for a change when he sent Marc to go and warm up on 59 mins and then he didn't bring him on until the 85th.

Given - world class save from a free kick, didnt seem too much he could do about either goal but their second I couldnt really see as it was the other end of the ground.

Hutton - drop him please. Slightly better attacking today but always out of position in defence.

Dunne - solid as ever

Collins - Clark in please, we need more composure.

Warnock - good again today. a few crap crosses in the second half though.

Herd - impressed again, I'd like to see him keep his place.

Stan - cracking goal, decent all round except his inexplicable desire to pass backwards at every opp.

Nzog - best performance for us so far but still so much to work on

Heskey - **** ridiculous. He is NOT a winger, Mcleish needed to bring him off today but bottled it. It was his misplaced pass which lead to their first goal too. I want him out of the team.

Gabby - love him, tireless even despite having to deal with a load of hoofballs and not much else

Bent - shouldve scored that one on one. Was robbed by the ref when breaking through for another one on one, never a foul in a million years.

We didnt deserve to win purely because of Mcleish's ineptitude. Why the **** didnt he change something, everyone could see it was necessary. We are going to be in a tough couple of months.

Crowd were great today. Had a good day apart from the result. We realy need to learn how to defend leads.

[VillaAndLoyal]

What is it with Villa and not making their dominance in a match count? Last season we lost 1-0 but were far the better team, but for some woeful finishing which gifted Sunderland the victory. Today, again, we were the better team. The Black Cats were awful but yet again we've thrown away valuable points and you CANNOT afford to do that in this league.

We've played five away matches now - with four draws and one heavy loss. We need to turn a few of these draws into wins and today and at QPR we should have.

A lack of quality at both ends is costing us. It goes without saying that without our two best wingers (Young & Downing) the supply line was going to be affected and McLeish is exacerbating this by playing **** Heskey on the wing - why? But, at the same time, we ARE still creating chances and Darren Bent has got to turn his form around and quick. Two massive misses in the last two games and he should have scored both, period. I realise what type of player Bent is but his body language, effort and attitude is really starting to annoy me now. He needs to work harder, make more runs and toughen himself up.

At the other end our defence is also costing us and seems little different to the scenes we saw from countless set-pieces last season. What the hell does Carlos Cuellar (and Clark for that matter) have to do to get a game at this football club? We cannot defend as a solid back-line and are forever being caught out of position - Warnock and Hutton are especially guilty for this. Defending also comes from midfield and with people like Heskey (far too slow) and N'Zogbia (doesn't like defending) in the side our defence is not getting the cover it needs. One thing Ashley Young did very well was tracking back and closing down.

Today, like so many games through the years, Villa lost their bottle. We need to man up, get the basics right and start taking the chances we get in games both in terms of attacking and defending. What exactly did we fear? Sunderland were shite and their crowd wasn't exactly intimidating. We should have won comfortably but yet again showed a lack of quality in getting the job done, and that is worrying.

The referee didn't help us out again, admittedly. A clear foul for obstruction was missed in the build-up to their first goal and Dunne was rightly aggrieved for the free-kick that wasn't which lead to their second. But even so, these are just excuses.

Petrov was MOTM and Gabby a close second. N'Zogbia looked more lively but the rest were by and large very average.

Despite the (on the whole) awful football we are playing at the moment, Villa proved what a loyal support it still has with well over 2,000 in attendance and in good voice. The new Barry Bannan chant was a particular favourite :winkold: What a shame the players and manager let us down again.

Massive game up next.

[VILLAFC2000]

What do you expect...!

We have 0 money, 0 ambition and 0 quality players....!

The PL is finished in my opinion unless you support one of the big 2 clubs then its OK.

I guess City and United do need teams to play against week in week out....!

I expected a better manager than average McLeish to start with.. the football is boring, hoof ball nonsense and I expected us to win more games than we have already considering the teams we have played.

Now that he is here.. I expected McLeish to sort out the defence.. he has also had pre season to work with the team; something the previous manager never had and sort everything out.. there has been no improvement in terms of conceeding from set pieces and even general play.

I think we would all like a better manager, but what kind of "TOP" manger is going to come to a club who have just sold their best players and have become a selling club, have little money to spend and a limit on wages...?

A manager like who...?

Benitez - we tried him and we turned him down because he wanted 20-30 million to build a new squad after selling Downing and Young - we did not want him - what can you do...?

Carlo Ancelotti - Tries him he was not interested.

Martinez - such a great manager Wigan are bottom of the table

Gerrad Houllier - enough said.

Unless we get more money don't expect a drastic change. Thats how the PL and Football work.

[SeanO]

Better but still no where near good enough.

Heskey is a none player who is difficult to take serious, it's like playing with ten men.

Hutton, the guy can't defend.

Collins, I can't work the player out. He will always put in the effort and at times he is great however this season he has been awful. His hoofing drives me mad as 9 out of 10 times he just gives the ball back to the opposition but that can be "slightly" over looked if his defending was solid. His defending for their 2nd goal was shameful. He needs to be dropped.

Bring in Delph for Heskey, Clark for Collins and CC for Hutton and then see if that works if not then McClueless will have to keep changing the team until he finds some consistency.

I know this will not happen as the nose always complained at just how boringly predictable McClueless was for them, it's just depressing looking at how far we have dropped.

A mention for Gabby, once again he put in a great shift thank god he's one of us so maybe just maybe he might stick around unless he's the only asset that Randy Lerner has to flog next summer.

[Borgs]

The clearest deduction from that game is that Sunderland under Steve Bruce is going nowhere. He should be in big trouble for trotting out that rabble. So, thankfully, I'm not a Sunderland fan.

A few have been a bit harsh on Heskey - there's not much he can do other than what he did. At least he wasn't giving the ball away. He can't be blamed for his deployment wide left. The more apposite question is: as an exclusively left-footed wide player, why isn't N'Zogbia out there? Actually, even more pertinent: why is N'Zogbia out there? Such a disappointing buy thus far.

Agbonlahor was very impressive again. Petrov excelled. If Ireland had anywhere near Stiliyan's work ethic he'd boss most games. It's such a shame he wastes on the bench when there's such a deficit of creativity in the team.

Bent might've done better with his chances but sometimes the keeper deserves credit.

James Collins looks more like a Championship player with each effort, and Dunne continues to spend lots of his playing time on another planet. Hutton and Warnock are such limited players, too. Defence is the biggest problem by some distance. McLeish's tenure is still so short-lived as to not warrant critical mention, certainly in the long view. But games like this are educational, and he'll surely know a lot needs fixing.

Two points dropped, to be sure.

[PauloBarnesi]

Its a far cry from the type of football Houllier was building at the club.

That's about the only thing to be thankful for. IIRC, Hoiullier delivered us two 0-1 defeats against Sunderland last season.

Not saying Houllier was some great manager, but I really don't see how we can be thankful that Houllier is gone and McLeish is in because so far we haven't imrpoved at all.

The loss/change of manager is not the problem.

We lost Young and Downing. Thats the problem.

Of course losing Young and Downing has hit us hard, especially because we haven't bought adequate replacements.

But losing them doesn't excuse the abysmal loss of concentration during every **** set piece and the inability to hold on to a lead for longer than five seconds.

Indeed. It just seems like the team's natural reaction to scoring a goal is to concede, even more now than ever before. When we score I actually don't get that excited anymore because I know it's an almost certainty that we'll concede again.

My point was if we had Houllier as manager with these players, I don’t think we would be doing any better. Infact I think we would be doing worse.

[Sani]

Martinez - such a great manager Wigan are bottom of the table

Thats incredibly unfair on him. He's done a great job keeping them up for two straight seasons with that shitty squad. They have no money, sell their best players and this season have no forward line. They play decent football but cant score, yesterday it was 73-27 in possesion vs fulham before dempsey scored on a counter. Considering theyve sold NZogbia, Palacios, Valencia and Cattermole in recent years, they've done well. If he keeps them up again, hes up for the medal of honour.......

[dudevillaisnice]

^ I agree, he has done an impressive job at Wigan by keeping them in the premier league and by playing the right way.

[dudevillaisnice]

I think we would all like a better manager, but what kind of "TOP" manger

Hmm "better" doesn't necessarily mean "top".. unless you rate McLeish really high.

[Brumstopdogs]

After Collins messed up to allow QPR to equalise he managed to mess up again by letting Sunderland equalise.

As for Heskey - he is utter dross!

Collins and Heskey out!

[Demitri_C]

our whole back is shite, barring hutton all players signed by o'neill at a combined fee 19m we should be seeing fat better defending than what w have seen.

collins for the first goal i mean come on basic school boy defending. i really hope we sell that lump come janaury

on a plus note thought stan and n'zog looked very good today. thought sessagnon is the exact kind of player we are misisng at the moment

[DiegoD]

^ I agree, he has done an impressive job at Wigan by keeping them in the premier league and by playing the right way.

I hate all that playing the right way crap. Football tactics should be different and each team should use their players they have to the best of their ability.

Passing it around the middle aimlessly while good at starving the other team of possession leaves you vulnerable on the counter and gives the other team plenty of time to organise their defence. A big reason why Wigan struggle to score. Just because one team has taken a philosophy and got some of the best players in the world to apply it doesn't make it the right way to play football.

/rant

[dudevillaisnice]

If your on about Barcelona I think you'd find I wasn't going on about them.

That said if we passed it around we'll see out results much easier.. but due to the long ball rubbish we keep on inviting pressure on ourselves and conceeding in the process.

Holding on to the ball instead of hoofing it will run down the time, make us comfortable and should frustrate the opponents probably drawing cards/fouls too.

[wedge]

Am I the only one who thought we played quite well? I thought for once we went out to win the game which is something under AM. I thought we would come out at the start of the second-half and sit on the 1-1 draw but it was us who looked more likely to win. If we could defend set-pieces we would have. I thought Petrov played really well again apart from his goal and that Bent (apart from that miss) and Given also did themselves proud. We perhaps should have made subs earlier than we did. Norwich next week is a must, must, must-win game now!

[wedge]

Oh and a note on the stewards and police at the game yesterday, idiots! One young Villa fan got thrown out for throwing sweets around yet when Wickham scored a golf ball was thrown into the Villa end but the police wern't interested, any Villa fan goading Sunderland fans was thrown out immediately by the fuzz who were facing our fans all through the game yet the Sunderland fans were allowed to gesture and bait us when they scored with no punishment while the stewards waited for Villa fans to retaliate then throw them out. Horrible, horrible place to go, there were loads thrown out even at half-time two Villa fans were scrapping with each other. Having said that I was surprised at the turnout (about 2,500 Villa fans) and pleased with the noise we made.

[CI]

Am I the only one who thought we played quite well? I thought for once we went out to win the game which is something under AM. I thought we would come out at the start of the second-half and sit on the 1-1 draw but it was us who looked more likely to win. If we could defend set-pieces we would have. I thought Petrov played really well again apart from his goal and that Bent (apart from that miss) and Given also did themselves proud. We perhaps should have made subs earlier than we did. Norwich next week is a must, must, must-win game now!

Yeah I thought we did ok, just defended like a pub team

If Bent had taken the 2 sitters he had we'd have strolled it

[CI]

Oh and a note on the stewards and police at the game yesterday, idiots! One young Villa fan got thrown out for throwing sweets around yet when Wickham scored a golf ball was thrown into the Villa end but the police wern't interested, any Villa fan goading Sunderland fans was thrown out immediately by the fuzz who were facing our fans all through the game yet the Sunderland fans were allowed to gesture and bait us when they scored with no punishment while the stewards waited for Villa fans to retaliate then throw them out. Horrible, horrible place to go, there were loads thrown out even at half-time two Villa fans were scrapping with each other. Having said that I was surprised at the turnout (about 2,500 Villa fans) and pleased with the noise we made.

away end looked far from full on tv