PauloBarnesi Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 RIP the man, **** his company. Never have and never will own an Apple product. You may never own a product by Apple, but without doubt you own a product that has been in someway influenced by them. I suspect that I am the longest or one of the using Apple users on here, I started on an Apple II back in the early 80s. Whilst lots of things that Apple have done hasn’t been up to its highest standards, its highest standards have been incredible, and have redefined probably more than any other technology company the way we use technology. Whatever you say its down to Jobs vision, maybe not the most original, maybe not the best business man, but certainly one of the greatest visionaries. Don't tell me, let me guess. You're a graphic designer? Ha Ha; in one But I wasn’t a graphic designer when I started using them back in the 80s. I had used Spectrums, Commodore Pets, Harris mainframes, etc, etc, infact anything my dad used at work. Apple’s for a non-computer person always were the best. If the Pet had been better I would have used it, if the Harris mainframe was better I would have used it. But guess what not all of graphic design is about surface; graphic design does and always has involved function. Your implication is that I am a graphic designer, therefore I haven’t a care for “important” things or have an understanding of them. If you don’t like Apple thats fine; but it seems churlish and narrow minded not to recognise the impact of the company and Steve Jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 RIP the man, **** his company. Never have and never will own an Apple product. You may never own a product by Apple, but without doubt you own a product that has been in someway influenced by them. I suspect that I am the longest or one of the using Apple users on here, I started on an Apple II back in the early 80s. Whilst lots of things that Apple have done hasn’t been up to its highest standards, its highest standards have been incredible, and have redefined probably more than any other technology company the way we use technology. Whatever you say its down to Jobs vision, maybe not the most original, maybe not the best business man, but certainly one of the greatest visionaries. Don't tell me, let me guess. You're a graphic designer? Ha Ha; in one But I wasn’t a graphic designer when I started using them back in the 80s. I had used Spectrums, Commodore Pets, Harris mainframes, etc, etc, infact anything my dad used at work. Apple’s for a non-computer person always were the best. If the Pet had been better I would have used it, if the Harris mainframe was better I would have used it. But guess what not all of graphic design is about surface; graphic design does and always has involved function. Your implication is that I am a graphic designer, therefore I haven’t a care for “important” things or have an understanding of them. If you don’t like Apple thats fine; but it seems churlish and narrow minded not to recognise the impact of the company and Steve Jobs. Nothing implied, just a bit of a guess due to speaking to a few graphic designers over the years (long-term ex was one) and they always, from my point of view, tend to overstate the importance of Apple before the mid-2000s iPod revolution. Of course, all user groups do. PC gamers think everyone wants a PC to play games, console gamers think no-one plays games on PCs anymore, etc, etc. I realise my Android phone would be nothing like it is now without Jobs. The earlier stuff about how Apple influenced Microsoft with the first Windows, I only know what I've read in a few places and watched on the Pirates of Silicon Valley. Apple has a massive place in modern pop culture, but as to how much he's affected the rest, or if it was just a natural progression that would have happened without him, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 6, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2011 RIP the man, **** his company. Never have and never will own an Apple product. You may never own a product by Apple, but without doubt you own a product that has been in someway influenced by them. I suspect that I am the longest or one of the using Apple users on here, I started on an Apple II back in the early 80s. Whilst lots of things that Apple have done hasn’t been up to its highest standards, its highest standards have been incredible, and have redefined probably more than any other technology company the way we use technology. Whatever you say its down to Jobs vision, maybe not the most original, maybe not the best business man, but certainly one of the greatest visionaries. Don't tell me, let me guess. You're a graphic designer? I'm a designer too, of clothes not graphics. I predominantly use Adobe Illustrator and have used it extensively on both PC and Mac. For usability (and display, although that my not be something directly attributable to Apple devices, I'm not technically savvy enough) the Mac wins hands down. It's the nuances that make it so much better. The shortcuts especially, and the movement and storage of files throughout the machine and the ability to preview them at the touch of a button. It's all about usability - I turn the machine on, I open the programs I want to use and then every process is simple and intuitive to how I work. My working day is far more efficient through the advancements of Apple than it would be were I a PC operator in the same role. It's my belief that great innovation makes people's lives better or easier. At the very least from a work standpoint Steve Jobs, through Apple, has made my life better AND easier. I'm not the only one, and that's why so many appreciate his vision and are saddened by his passing. Referring back to your previous post about Apple vs Linux vs Windows vs Android - it's an interesting read. As a lay person, though, to me it's sounds like comparing Pepsi v Coke, Nike v adidas, Ford v Volkswagen etc. All design/product-based industries are incestuous and competitive, both talent and ideas get moved around, used and improved upon. Ultimately there will be something that makes a company come out on top - usually their brand appeal. Apple has brand appeal, but its products also have many features and benefits which make them more applicable to the casual user (hence widespread sales). They've aimed to make it easier - other MP3 players may be "better" but are they as simple or effortless to use? Own the whole show - iPhone, Macbook etc and they all link up and sync. Again, making people's lives easier. Apple put the user first and unashamedly told the world that's what they were doing. Nothing wrong with that, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 All of it would have happened without Jobs, just as the industrial revolution would have happened without say Matthew Boulton, or modern art without Picasso, or the steam train without Stephenson. He’s not vital to any of it; just that he is probably one of a small number of people who have genuinely changed the world. Whether for good or bad, who knows. As for graphic design; Apple was one of a few important companies; Aldus and Adobe being the other most notable ones. The impact of the desktop revolution cannot be stated; its not as important as the invention of movable type, but its incredibly significant. Apple’s understanding of this was vital to that revolution. Virtually all printed material and the printing industry has been affected by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 6, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2011 if it was just a natural progression that would have happened without him, I'm not sure. It didn't though, and that's the point. If it were that simple every work of Shakespeare would have the names of an infinite amount of monkeys on the front cover instead of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 6, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2011 Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every drawer, was beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating. None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But ten years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Who needs good typography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 http://www.tested.com/podcast/ My favourite podcast anyway. Starts with a good 40 minutes of Jobs eulogy. Well worth a listen on your commute today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 7, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 7, 2011 All of it would have happened without Jobs, just as the industrial revolution would have happened without say Matthew Boulton, or modern art without Picasso, or the steam train without Stephenson. He’s not vital to any of it; just that he is probably one of a small number of people who have genuinely changed the world. Whether for good or bad, who knows. You're right about Stephenson, as Trevithick invented the steam locomotive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 All of it would have happened without Jobs, just as the industrial revolution would have happened without say Matthew Boulton, or modern art without Picasso, or the steam train without Stephenson. He’s not vital to any of it; just that he is probably one of a small number of people who have genuinely changed the world. Whether for good or bad, who knows. You're right about Stephenson, as Trevithick invented the steam locomotive. But Stephenson developed on the idea and improved it. Although Stephenson is unfairly credited with inventing the steam locomotive. Trevithick is largely forgotten, and Marc Seguin's help to Stephenson is as well. Same as Charles Babbage was the father of computing, Jobs merely innovatised his idea. And Alan Turing, who innovatised computing in his own way a long time before Jobs. But slightly OT. Either way, computing would be different without Jobs, but not as massively different as people think, IMO. Either way, he certainly left a huge mark on the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 7, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 7, 2011 Or indeed, while English is a perfectly good language, someone invented the word "innovatised" right here in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 What can I say, I'm innovatising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted October 7, 2011 It should really be "innovatized" with a "z" to get the full American effect. I always thought that a burglar burgled, but apparently he "burglarizes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 It should really be "innovatized" with a "z" to get the full American effect. I always thought that a burglar burgled, but apparently he "burglarizes". Does that mean a bugger buggerizes rather than buggered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 An interesting read And an interesting look at his patents. Anyone who defends Apple in patent rows should take a look at that and how they've patented a box and a staircase amongst many other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 All of it would have happened without Jobs, just as the industrial revolution would have happened without say Matthew Boulton, or modern art without Picasso, or the steam train without Stephenson. He’s not vital to any of it; just that he is probably one of a small number of people who have genuinely changed the world. Whether for good or bad, who knows. You're right about Stephenson, as Trevithick invented the steam locomotive. But Stephenson developed on the idea and improved it. What Stephenson did was win the Rainhill trial. And as the winner he wrote history. The Rocket is one of the most famous machines in history; far more than any of its predecessors or its contemporaries. But you are right he did a fine job of improving the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Very greedy man you could argue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 The Rocket is one of the most famous machines in history What machine again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted October 7, 2011 The Rocket is one of the most famous machines in history What machine again?Stephenson's Rocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeinMadrid Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 "Okay, I love shiny plastic shit as much as the next guy, but can we just stop all of this Steve Jobs fawning? Lots of important people have died recently, and Jobs would not be at the top of that list. Yes, Apple stuff is super shiny. My MBP is great. So is my iPhone. So is my iPod. Lots of creative people were involved in designing those, not just Jobs. However, Jobs was notably opposed to philanthropy. And he callously exploited and poisoned poor workers around the world. And he was anti-union. And he had terrible taste in turtlenecks. And I could go on. His goal was to make money. Period. And he made a lot of it. I "paid tribute" to Jobs when I bought his shit. So did you. Do I like that shit? Again, yes. But I love lots of products. So do you. So does everyone. They help us not think about the other soul-crushing aspects of our lives. But despite what all the nauseating Apple ads said over the years, owning Apple stuff never made you more creative or a member of some counter-cultural elite. When you cut through all the bullshit, Jobs's stuff just had rounder edges and fewer software issues. That's great. But Jobs wasn't Jesus (or even Fred Shuttlesworth). Jesus wouldn't use child labor. Jesus wouldn't wear ugly turtlenecks. And Jesus wouldn't make you pay extra for phone technical support. Okay? So let's all just get some perspective and chill - the - **** - out about Steve Jobs." Not my words...but it's how I feel about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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