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RIP Steve Jobs


maqroll

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Sell someone a product, and tie them to your software and environment exclusively

Jobs learnt well from Microsoft.

The only small difference is that Microsoft give away their product then allow any developer to write software to run on it. Inclusively. Without restriction. You can buy software anywhere from any supplier that will work on their platform. You are not tied to one manufacturer/supplier for everything.

In fact, to refer to Microsoft with the term 'exclusive' is absolutely hilarious in a debate about Apple.

Apple operate a near-communist regime. Hardware options are extremely limited and directly related to budget, not customer suitability, and the after sales market is restricted contractually to buying from one shop. Their shop. Their hardware is unreliable and ordinary, albeit they are aesthetically pleasing. Their claims of innovation ludicrous.

Yet Apple are extremely good at marketing. They have built a cult status with their products, where cool is more important than reliability/sustainability/functionality. And then somehow managed to charge double the price for it.

Microsoft = inclusive = open market

Apple = exclusive = closed market

I like to choose a product that best suits my requirements, therefore I like to select the product that best suits me. And I don't want to pay through the nose for it.

Cool = for fools.

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There's a lot of stuff to hate Apple for, but it's a bit tasteless to start badmouthing them in a topic like this.

Tasteless? Dunno about that, this is a man who built his reputation and fortune and company on exactly what MMFy has put. He was certainly a very talented man, and certainly he was brilliant at what he did, but he's not some kind of Saint either.

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Nothing against the bloke personally, but (as per the "Cool brands" thread), Apple is a company whose products I avoid like the plague - purely because I got so sick of their fanboys going on and on about how great they are.

In my experience, the anti Apple Fanboys are far more vocal than the apple fanboys.

I'd like to think I fit into neither camp (I own an iPhone, but not any other Apple product, and never have)

You only have to look at this thread to see people saying "**** his company. Never owned an apple product, never will"

Why? What's wrong with owning one of their products?

Anyway, RIP to Jobs. Even if you hate his company, you can't ignore the contribution he's made to the technological world.

I thought I'd better respond as it was my quote. ;)

My feelings are simple regarding Apple. I will not buy an 'exclusive' product when there is an 'inclusive' product with a matching technical specification at half the price or less.

I was due for a phone upgrade last summer when the iPhone4 was released. I had the choice of the iPhone, or any number of other smartphones by a host of manufacturers. Sony, HTC, Samsung, Nokia, etc. I checked the technical specification of the handsets available and found the iPhone, HTC Desire and Sony Xperia were the handsets that best suited my requirement. I did my research. The Sony and HTC had excellent reviews, but the iPhone had lousy reviews regarding iOS4. This was not the clincher though. Although my phone is covered by my contents insurance, I will usually take out cover through the network so that I can guarantee a new phone in 24 hours if anything happens. I have been with Orange for years and have no desire to leave their network. Then there is the cost (like for like Orange contracts).

PHONE     COST      MONTH     INSURANCE


iPhone    £200      £45       £12

Desire    FREE      £27.50    £6

Xperia    FREE      £27.50    £6

So, I'm choosing between three handsets with thereabouts identical technical specifications, yet one is HUGELY more expensive and has poor reviews. In fact, the iPhone4 would have cost £764 MORE than the others over the 24 month contract. It's a no-brainer, I'm never going to spaff that much money on a phone that has poor reviews. I chose the Sony over the HTC purely through familiarity with Sony phones. I would not have hesitated to switch to the HTC though.

As for the rest of their products:

iPad: Overpriced, underspec'd average equipment with a premium price tag. It's just a big phone at twice the price of a decent laptop! There are plenty of competitor products at half the price which will match it all the way.

iPod: Most phones have had an MP3 player for years now, and as the memory size increases, or detachable memory card sizes increase, the flexibility makes the entire concept of buying an expensive music player with no physical or technical advantages over your existing equipment redundant.

iBook: How much? HOW MUCH?! Are they taking the piss? Half the money will buy a laptop that will outperform it in every aspect. Why is it so expensive?

A lot of people have claimed the advantages of music production and graphic design the Apple product offers over the years but this is just not valid. There is no difference if you know what you are doing. I put music together on an old XP machine 10 years ago with no difficulty. I have also never seen an Apple computer used in Engineering design work (the scale of the work in my industry is phenomenal) - surely a feat more challenging than some basic graphic design work.

You have a wide selection of software for other operating systems - it's about selecting the one that suits your requirement, and absolutely not the hardware the task is performed on.

I will give it to Steve Jobs and Apple though, they have done an excellent marketing job with their company in the last 15 years or so. To create a cult status from such an average and overpriced product is a feat worth celebrating. Cringe.

So, fanboys can stick with their disposable Apple products until their batteries pack up - every 18-24 months. I will stick to the open marketplace and buy the product that best suits my needs - and keep a few hundred quid in my pocket in the process!

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There's a lot of stuff to hate Apple for, but it's a bit tasteless to start badmouthing them in a topic like this.

As I said earlier, RIP the man. A very clever revolutionary who has created an empire. Lived a fantastic life but unfortunately died rather young. Rest in Peace.

However, the company is not his family, and we are not going a bunch of haters pissing over their bouquets. This is a football message board.

I'm not an Apple-hater, I just really cannot understand the love-in for their seemingly average product.

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There's a lot of stuff to hate Apple for, but it's a bit tasteless to start badmouthing them in a topic like this.

As I said earlier, RIP the man. A very clever revolutionary who has created an empire. Lived a fantastic life but unfortunately died rather young. Rest in Peace.

However, the company is not his family, and we are not going a bunch of haters pissing over their bouquets. This is a football message board.

I'm not an Apple-hater, I just really cannot understand the love-in for their seemingly average product.

In my opinion it's because there used to be a real hatred for Microsoft with their empire of Windows (based on a dodgy OS) and later, programs like internet explorer coming as default on every computer you bought. The only alternative for the computing counter culture was Mac. Macs were a bit rubbish but had a small but devoted following.

Then Apple actually got some decent products and the underdog was suddenly on top. I think it's like Man City fans who now are crowing like mad because they have been forever stuck in United's shadow and are suddenly competitive with their hated rival.

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There's a lot of stuff to hate Apple for, but it's a bit tasteless to start badmouthing them in a topic like this.

As I said earlier, RIP the man. A very clever revolutionary who has created an empire. Lived a fantastic life but unfortunately died rather young. Rest in Peace.

However, the company is not his family, and we are not going a bunch of haters pissing over their bouquets. This is a football message board.

I'm not an Apple-hater, I just really cannot understand the love-in for their seemingly average product.

In my opinion it's because there used to be a real hatred for Microsoft with their empire of Windows (based on a dodgy OS) and later, programs like internet explorer coming as default on every computer you bought. The only alternative for the computing counter culture was Mac. Macs were a bit rubbish but had a small but devoted following.

Then Apple actually got some decent products and the underdog was suddenly on top. I think it's like Man City fans who now are crowing like mad because they have been forever stuck in United's shadow and are suddenly competitive with their hated rival.

It seems a lot of the people who slate Microsoft for 'bullying their share of the market' with the way they chose to distribute the Windows OS are a bit naiive though. Software compatible with the Windows OS is an open market, thus you can use programs developed by other companies if you do not like the Microsoft version of the software. I have not used IE by choice since 2003. To change the browser you simply load another one on and it's ready to go. Do you get a choice of internet browser with Apple?

It seems a bit odd to me that people complain about Microsoft cornering an open market, (which they have only provided an open & common language for) then reverting to a market by choice where there is no choice.

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Do you get a choice of internet browser with Apple?
Yes, obviously. Always have done. I'm using one now - Camino - and there's Firefox, Opera, and plenty of others. I've owned Macs since my first computer, one of those Candy iMacs about 11 years ago. Other people make software for Macs too, by the way - you can get stuff to do just about anything either free or purchase - same as for Windows, really. And though not as much (the marketshare is much smaller) probably more percentage-wise compared to market share. The software often tends to have a longer life too.

Anyway, re Steve Jobs, his vision changed the World, IMO, in terms of consumer electronics and gadgets. He wasn't not the only person to do that, but he was one of them. He changed mine - the ease of use of (my) computers, of having all my music with me, and of having a portable, user friendly little phone thingy to do all kinds and so on - they're all down to Steve Jobs and Jonathan Ive, really.

I'm sure other companies will make terrific gismos too. It doesn't matter, though. I know that if I buy an apple gubbins I'll instinctively know how to work it, it'll be well made and it'll do what it's supposed to do without quirks or crashes or viruses or whatever. The user experience is very satisfactory, and that's what really matters to my choices.

Not sure about Microsoft being "open" by the way. I percieve the opposite to be true, but don't actually care and it doesn't matter.

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Do you get a choice of internet browser with Apple?
Yes, obviously. Always have done. I'm using one now - Camino - and there's Firefox, Opera, and plenty of others. I've owned Macs since my first computer, one of those Candy iMacs about 11 years ago. Other people make software for Macs too, by the way - you can get stuff to do just about anything either free or purchase - same as for Windows, really. And though not as much (the marketshare is much smaller) probably more percentage-wise compared to market share. The software often tends to have a longer life too.

Anyway, re Steve Jobs, his vision changed the World, IMO, in terms of consumer electronics and gadgets. He wasn't not the only person to do that, but he was one of them. He changed mine - the ease of use of (my) computers, of having all my music with me, and of having a portable, user friendly little phone thingy to do all kinds and so on - they're all down to Steve Jobs and Jonathan Ive, really.

I'm sure other companies will make terrific gismos too. It doesn't matter, though. I know that if I buy an apple gubbins I'll instinctively know how to work it, it'll be well made and it'll do what it's supposed to do without quirks or crashes or viruses or whatever. The user experience is very satisfactory, and that's what really matters to my choices.

Not sure about Microsoft being "open" by the way. I percieve the opposite to be true, but don't actually care and it doesn't matter.

This

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I have a relatively new Macbook Pro, and it's the absolute dog's danglies, far better than any Windows based laptop I've ever owned. I'm a late convert to Apple products, but a few minor annoyances aside, they're mostly great.

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Nothing against the bloke personally, but (as per the "Cool brands" thread), Apple is a company whose products I avoid like the plague - purely because I got so sick of their fanboys going on and on about how great they are.

In my experience, the anti Apple Fanboys are far more vocal than the apple fanboys.

I'd like to think I fit into neither camp (I own an iPhone, but not any other Apple product, and never have)

You only have to look at this thread to see people saying "**** his company. Never owned an apple product, never will"

Why? What's wrong with owning one of their products?

Anyway, RIP to Jobs. Even if you hate his company, you can't ignore the contribution he's made to the technological world.

I thought I'd better respond as it was my quote. ;)

My feelings are simple regarding Apple. I will not buy an 'exclusive' product when there is an 'inclusive' product with a matching technical specification at half the price or less.

I was due for a phone upgrade last summer when the iPhone4 was released. I had the choice of the iPhone, or any number of other smartphones by a host of manufacturers. Sony, HTC, Samsung, Nokia, etc. I checked the technical specification of the handsets available and found the iPhone, HTC Desire and Sony Xperia were the handsets that best suited my requirement. I did my research. The Sony and HTC had excellent reviews, but the iPhone had lousy reviews regarding iOS4. This was not the clincher though. Although my phone is covered by my contents insurance, I will usually take out cover through the network so that I can guarantee a new phone in 24 hours if anything happens. I have been with Orange for years and have no desire to leave their network. Then there is the cost (like for like Orange contracts).

PHONE     COST      MONTH     INSURANCE


iPhone    £200      £45       £12

Desire    FREE      £27.50    £6

Xperia    FREE      £27.50    £6

So, I'm choosing between three handsets with thereabouts identical technical specifications, yet one is HUGELY more expensive and has poor reviews. In fact, the iPhone4 would have cost £764 MORE than the others over the 24 month contract. It's a no-brainer, I'm never going to spaff that much money on a phone that has poor reviews. I chose the Sony over the HTC purely through familiarity with Sony phones. I would not have hesitated to switch to the HTC though.

As for the rest of their products:

iPad: Overpriced, underspec'd average equipment with a premium price tag. It's just a big phone at twice the price of a decent laptop! There are plenty of competitor products at half the price which will match it all the way.

iPod: Most phones have had an MP3 player for years now, and as the memory size increases, or detachable memory card sizes increase, the flexibility makes the entire concept of buying an expensive music player with no physical or technical advantages over your existing equipment redundant.

iBook: How much? HOW MUCH?! Are they taking the piss? Half the money will buy a laptop that will outperform it in every aspect. Why is it so expensive?

A lot of people have claimed the advantages of music production and graphic design the Apple product offers over the years but this is just not valid. There is no difference if you know what you are doing. I put music together on an old XP machine 10 years ago with no difficulty. I have also never seen an Apple computer used in Engineering design work (the scale of the work in my industry is phenomenal) - surely a feat more challenging than some basic graphic design work.

You have a wide selection of software for other operating systems - it's about selecting the one that suits your requirement, and absolutely not the hardware the task is performed on.

I will give it to Steve Jobs and Apple though, they have done an excellent marketing job with their company in the last 15 years or so. To create a cult status from such an average and overpriced product is a feat worth celebrating. Cringe.

So, fanboys can stick with their disposable Apple products until their batteries pack up - every 18-24 months. I will stick to the open marketplace and buy the product that best suits my needs - and keep a few hundred quid in my pocket in the process!

No further questions

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I am neither an Apple nor a Mcrosoft knocker.

My single frustration with Microsoft is that the change to Vista and then Windows 7 caused all sorts of problems with Access, another of their software products.

I use an Apple MacBook, which is the best laptop that I have had by a long chalk. My perception is that if f I want to buy a Windows laptop of a compatible build quality, then I am probably going to end up paying the price of a MacBook.

The iPad might be a "fanboy" product, and it is certainly overpriced, but for a regular (light) traveller it is fantastic. When I am home mine is used by 3 generations of my family, so I would venture that the ipad has brought pleasure to millions, and has a significant place in a lot of people's daily lives.

For me Steve Jobs has left a great legacy.

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Have to say that OS on my macbook runs far quicker than Windows does on my old laptop which had better technical specifications - its easy to use, things tend to update more simply, it doesn't just restart itself to update whilst you're using the computer. Its fantastic.

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“No one wants to die, even people who want to go to Heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet, death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because death is very likely the single best invention of life. It’s life’s change agent; it clears out the old to make way for the new … Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life.” -Steve Jobs

Some Sophoclean undertones in there:

Ἅιδα μόνον φεῦξιν οὐκ ἐπάξεται: - From death alone, man contrives no escape (Antigone)

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RIP the man, **** his company. Never have and never will own an Apple product.

You may never own a product by Apple, but without doubt you own a product that has been in someway influenced by them.

I suspect that I am the longest or one of the using Apple users on here, I started on an Apple II back in the early 80s. Whilst lots of things that Apple have done hasn’t been up to its highest standards, its highest standards have been incredible, and have redefined probably more than any other technology company the way we use technology. Whatever you say its down to Jobs vision, maybe not the most original, maybe not the best business man, but certainly one of the greatest visionaries.

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This might be a long one and some of it is a little bit of a departure from the main focus of this thread, Steve Jobs, but it kind of ties in.

I dislike Apple in general and wouldn't own any of their products, and I'd like to explain why.

I've been in IT for about 15 years doing things like designing and building PCs for Evesham Micros if anyone remembers those and since then being a Linux sysadmin. The fact that most of the people reading this won't have any idea what Linux is is the worst part about the current state of the IT industry.

In the 90s, Microsoft started to become the dominant force in personal computing they are now because Apple tied themselves to a closed ecosystem. The enterprise and business space were using a lot of terminal based computing with operating systems known as Unix. In 1991, a Finnish student called Linus Torvalds started writing the core bits of a free operating system which he called Linux. Over the next 10 years, Microsoft starting indulging in some pretty low business practices to ensure they couldn't be touched as the dominant provider of operating systems on personal computer, while IT professionals started indulging more and more in the rapidly growing alternative, Linux.

Linux started getting some fantastic software and with the growth of the Internet, it grew to the point of being the most widely used OS for web servers (currently around 60% of all web servers on the net, compared to the closest competitor, Microsoft Windows Server, with 15% To prove this point, scroll down to the bottom of this page and look at the 'powered by' bits.) Then through the 2000s, Linux started to take on Microsoft Windows and gained lots of traction with Linux variants such as Ubuntu apparently getting to as high as about 10% of installed personal computers according to some estimates. Suddenly, companies were waking up to this and providing Linux versions of their software and it was all looking good to take on Microsoft. I'll just reiterate, everything about Linux is good, almost everything about Microsoft is bad. They have a lot of loyalty from professionals who have pledged their careers to Microsoft being popular, but while I could go into the reasons for both statements, take my word for it.

Enter Apple back onto the scene with the iPod. Just another MP3 player which we'd been using for years. The Diamond Rio, the iRiver etc. But it sounded cool - sticking an i in front of names makes them sound modern and funky, and it was white. But it wasn't even the best portable music device, the iRivers were better. But people watched the adverts, and bought them. But to use them you had to have iTunes, which people using Linux couldn't do, so they instantly pissed off quite a proportion of high-level geeks, who traditionally would have been the mainstay of Linux users. It wasn't just that they didn't make iTunes for Linux, they pretty much stuck 2 fingers up at it. Normally a web site will detect your user-agent, see you're using Linux and apologise that they don't make it for your OS. This is fine, but Apple just gave you the Windows version and didn't mention Linux anywhere, not in a single place. To them it was insignificant, even though it had a greater user share than Mac OS did at the time. Not only that, they went to the trouble to make sure a Linux user couldn't run it through an emulator, which was just spiteful. Even though Mac OS is actually very close to Linux under the covers, Apple made a Windows version but not Linux.

I'm not alone in disliking Apple for that particular reason, but now the latest thing is all these people discovering Mac OS due to their pleasant experience of the iPhone and iPod. These are the same ordinary users who decided Windows was for them and Linux wasn't realistic as a desktop OS due to it not being able to run Windows software and Windows games. Now suddenly that's OK because it's Apple. But to add further insult to it, OS X still isn't even as good as something like Ubuntu because the software library is pretty limited and it's locked to Apple hardware.

Fast forward to now and history has repeated itself, but this time Android has replaced Windows as the victor. Where Windows was the common ubiquitous OS available on any common general PC hardware during the 90s, Android is now the common ubiquitous OS on any common general mobile hardware. Apple shot themselves in the foot in the 90s by tying their OS and hardware together and closing themselves out and they're doing the exact same thing again. As I said about 12 months ago, the only way for Apple to save themselves was to open iOS to manufacturers, learn from their previous mistakes, but they didn't. How does this relate to Steve Jobs? Well, most people say he's a genius for what he's done with Apple, but I see it that while his strong principles and ideals have resurrected Apple, they've also ensured the next fall of Apple, too.

Personally I'm not a massive fan of iOS either, I think it's nice and smooth due to the locked down hardware, but the interface is now so dated they're having to add features Android has had since the beginning such as pull-down notification bars.

As a final irony to Apple taking the piss out of Linux, guess what OS Android is beneath the covers?

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RIP the man, **** his company. Never have and never will own an Apple product.

You may never own a product by Apple, but without doubt you own a product that has been in someway influenced by them.

I suspect that I am the longest or one of the using Apple users on here, I started on an Apple II back in the early 80s. Whilst lots of things that Apple have done hasn’t been up to its highest standards, its highest standards have been incredible, and have redefined probably more than any other technology company the way we use technology. Whatever you say its down to Jobs vision, maybe not the most original, maybe not the best business man, but certainly one of the greatest visionaries.

Don't tell me, let me guess. You're a graphic designer?

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