Houllier or Mcleish

[Kiwivillan]

Still - it's Houllier that's a cock, eh? :winkold:

Houllier left us in the shit and claimed compensation too, tbh.

Kinda lends itself to the view that "all managers are mecenaries", no?

But it's Houllier that gets slated and MON that gets immortalised. Go figure.

becasue rightly or wrongly a lot of our fans are idiots.

MON was a disgrace and he's caused these issues that we now have. Peopel talking about him ebing a 'great' he achieved very little and nothing more than DOL except having huge transfer funds and paying ridiculous wages.

Typical response 'MON was a villa, man Houllier wasn't'. One of tehse men wanted to manage Aston villa the other one didn't and left at the worst possible time.

It shows the power of his self-crafted image that MON could spunk so much money on mostly agricultural footballers, play Forest funnel football, win **** all, leave us in the lurch, and still be adored by many on here.

Boggles the mind really.

[MrDuck]

MON wanted to be at the club so much he resigned (this means it was his choice to leave - i.e he wanted to leave) - 5 days before the season

Thats why we had to pay him compensation at a tribunal I suppose?

Houllier however had doctors advice to quit but still held out to be sacked for the compensation.

I thought MON's compensation was only circa 3-6 months pay. Seems like a compromise to settle a dispute rather than an acceptance that he had a case?

I think he shafted us - timing etc. - but you still seem want to defend him?

See, you think he shafted us... which is fine, and I can see why, and why you'd dislike him as a result.

Personally, I think the club shafted him - and that's why I will defend him. The compensation case only serves to back this up. As does the subsequent cull of players from the squad and the lack of funds given to McLeish.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Shafted how? because his boss asked him to change the way things are done after been given a pretty free reign for so long.

He shouldn't have left the time he did.

[ozvillafan]

he wouldn't have spunked money on dross

lets remember some of those great buys at Liverpool; Anelka or Djouf? Not a hard one if you are Houllier. The new Zidane anyone? etc, etc.

Sure he bought some good players, but he bought a hell of a lot of dross with no resale value...

Aye.

No manager is perfect - even Fergie bought Djemba Djemba and the "blind Venetian" (forgotten his name).

Houllier is no stand-out when it comes to transfers - either good or bad.

[bickster]

he wouldn't have spunked money on dross

lets remember some of those great buys at Liverpool; Anelka or Djouf? Not a hard one if you are Houllier. The new Zidane anyone? etc, etc.

Sure he bought some good players, but he bought a hell of a lot of dross with no resale value...

Aye.

No manager is perfect - even Fergie bought Djemba Djemba and the "blind Venetian" (forgotten his name).

Houllier is no stand-out when it comes to transfers - either good or bad.

Check out the full list of players he bought whilst at Liverpool, he definitely stands out but not in a good way, he bought some absolute humdingers, much more than your normal manager, let alone a top drawer one. His transfer policy at Liverpool seemed to be about, if he threw enough shit at the wall some of it might stick

Houllier is one of the biggest charlatans in the management game, he's been overtly fortunate in the latter half of his career and there haven't half been some myths surrounding him. Houllier would also have been the worst kind of manager under the new "austerity programme" underway at Villa Park

[DelboyVilla]

he wouldn't have spunked money on dross

lets remember some of those great buys at Liverpool; Anelka or Djouf? Not a hard one if you are Houllier. The new Zidane anyone? etc, etc.

Sure he bought some good players, but he bought a hell of a lot of dross with no resale value...

Aye.

No manager is perfect - even Fergie bought Djemba Djemba and the "blind Venetian" (forgotten his name).

Houllier is no stand-out when it comes to transfers - either good or bad.

Check out the full list of players he bought whilst at Liverpool, he definitely stands out but not in a good way, he bought some absolute humdingers, much more than your normal manager, let alone a top drawer one. His transfer policy at Liverpool seemed to be about, if he threw enough shit at the wall some of it might stick

Houllier is one of the biggest charlatans in the management game, he's been overtly fortunate in the latter half of his career and there haven't half been some myths surrounding him. Houllier would also have been the worst kind of manager under the new "austerity programme" underway at Villa Park

Houllier is an urban legend being kept alive by the likes of steak! He has never had success at a club that was not already successful and was lucky to be sat on his arse in a cushy job in the FFF when they were winning things! Good McGrath, remember this is the guy that thought swapping Baros for Carew was a good piece of business! This was a guy would decided to buy Diouf rather than a cheaper Anelka who had just completed a highly sucessful loan spell with them! At least MON kept his shit buys to UK based players and actually bought some players who made money for us! Houllier scoured the world in his quest for shit players and I cannot think of one successful French youth buy he made at the Plop?? And Houllier didn't buy players of the ilk of Milner, Young and Downing and turn them into International class players!!! The guy has riden on the backs of other people his whole life!!

[MrDuck]

Shafted how? because his boss asked him to change the way things are done after been given a pretty free reign for so long.

He shouldn't have left the time he did.

As far as I'm aware, we don't know for sure what happened.. we have only hearsay.

Why shouldn't he have left at that time? If I was being **** over by my bosses, and the terms of my agreement with them were being drastically changed (for example), then I wouldn't hang around... would you? I certainly wouldn't stay just because the company would be in the shit if I left. If they were **** me over, frankly I'd probably take great pleasure in dropping them in the shit.

Given what has happened at the club since he left, I suspect he was the only person at Villa that actually knew what he was doing.

[DelboyVilla]

Shafted how? because his boss asked him to change the way things are done after been given a pretty free reign for so long.

He shouldn't have left the time he did.

As far as I'm aware, we don't know for sure what happened.. we have only hearsay.

Why shouldn't he have left at that time? If I was being **** over by my bosses, and the terms of my agreement with them were being drastically changed (for example), then I wouldn't hang around... would you? I certainly wouldn't stay just because the company would be in the shit if I left. If they were **** me over, frankly I'd probably take great pleasure in dropping them in the shit.

Given what has happened at the club since he left, I suspect he was the only person at Villa that actually knew what he was doing.

Exactly^^^^^^!!!

The only person who ever commented on MON leaving us was our very own defender of truth and justice, The general!!! He never tells lies or feeds the fans spin and bollocks!! MON had been unhappy for a while, that was clear but if the board handled him like they have handled everything since then I can't blame MON for dropping us in it!!

[dudevillaisnice]

If he had been "unhappy for a while" why leave at the time he did then? why not leave earlier? did he purposely leave at that specific time a couple of days before the new season to screw over the club?

[Stu_The_Villan]

did he purposely leave at that specific time a couple of days before the new season to screw over the club?

In a word, yes.

[briny_ear]

did he purposely leave at that specific time a couple of days before the new season to screw over the club?

In a word, yes.

That is according to the club's propaganda.

But there isn't much solid evidence to back it up.

It's an assumption that some people make but it is just as likely, looking at the sequence of events, that MON received assurances about the availabilty of cash from the Milner sale that were then gone back on - or at least the position had been unclear and suddenly became clear in the final meeting with Faulkner.

Why isn't that a perfectly valid interpretation of events?

It seems to be backed up a bit by the £1.5m (alleged) pay off MON finally got.

[Stu_The_Villan]

did he purposely leave at that specific time a couple of days before the new season to screw over the club?

In a word, yes.

That is according to the club's propaganda.

But there isn't much solid evidence to back it up.

It's an assumption that some people make but it is just as likely, looking at the sequence of events, that MON received assurances about the availabilty of cash from the Milner sale that were then gone back on - or at least the position had been unclear and suddenly became clear in the final meeting with Faulkner.

Why isn't that a perfectly valid interpretation of events?

It seems to be backed up a bit by the £1.5m (alleged) pay off MON finally got.

What propaganda? There was none.

How about this....,MoN was told to cut the wage bill and then done a runner because he knew he would be up to his neck in shit trying to get that lot of useless tat off the wagebill.

It can be dressed up however you want. You give it the Pro MoN anti board slant because you like O'Neill. I do the opposite. The truth is neither of us know.

But the thing i just keep on coming back to, no matter how much I analyse it, is that that little wretch walked out on us at a crucial time. If he had any ounce of decency he would have at least stopped until January to give us chance to sort a new manager out. He couldnt even do that though.

So at the end of the day, MoN knew full well what he was doing. And he was wrong for doing so - no matter what he was or wasnt told by the board. He owed it to us at least, the fans, make sure the club was in a position to continue without him.

[stanthemanisgod]

The way he left the club has definately left a bad taste in the mouth's of many but you cannot point the finger solely at one party.

We have been kept in the dark about a lot of the goings on and as such people have made their own minds up. But I doubt very much if MoN, Houllier or even AMc feel as if they owed or owe the fans anything. At the end of the day no matter how much we might take a vested interest in all things Villa the manager's job is just that a job.

I think it's fairly safe to assume, based on the fact MoN got compensation from the club, that there was more too it than MoN just sulking and deciding to leave. And while I believe neither side is blame free it's simply not fair to blame it all on MoN.

If anybody actually witnessed the conversations that occured or was present at the tribunal then please feel free to correct me.

[Stu_The_Villan]

I think it's fairly safe to assume, based on the fact MoN got compensation from the club, that there was more too it than MoN just sulking and deciding to leave. And while I believe neither side is blame free it's simply not fair to blame it all on MoN.

OK then. Assuming Brinys theory is true that MoN was refused the cash from the Milner sale as the reason he left the club. Why would thast then entitle MoN to compensation?? It wouldnt. Which is why that theory just doesnt add up

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Shafted how? because his boss asked him to change the way things are done after been given a pretty free reign for so long.

He shouldn't have left the time he did.

As far as I'm aware, we don't know for sure what happened.. we have only hearsay.

Why shouldn't he have left at that time? If I was being **** over by my bosses, and the terms of my agreement with them were being drastically changed (for example), then I wouldn't hang around... would you? I certainly wouldn't stay just because the company would be in the shit if I left. If they were **** me over, frankly I'd probably take great pleasure in dropping them in the shit.

Given what has happened at the club since he left, I suspect he was the only person at Villa that actually knew what he was doing.

He was hardly being left in the shit though was he. :?

Or are you saying O'Neill was incapable of managing a team just because it didn't have James Milner in it? Let's not go overboard. He might have been told he's not receiving the Milner money, as Lerner wanted to change things but that's still hardly reason to quit.

He's hardly being **** over, he'd have lost Milner ....that is not **** a manager over.

There wasn't enough changing to justify leaving at that time if there was any respect for the club especially given the respect and loyalty Lerner had previously shown O'Neill.

[stanthemanisgod]

OK then. Assuming Brinys theory is true that MoN was refused the cash from the Milner sale as the reason he left the club. Why would thast then entitle MoN to compensation?? It wouldnt. Which is why that theory just doesnt add up

No Stu it wouldn't which is why I believe the whole affair is a lot more complicated than many of us believe. I dont know why he was paid compensation but the fact he was would indicate the terms of his contract were breached in some way.

That's why so far I've not joined the bandwagon of those out for his blood, untill I know, emphasis on the know part there, know what actually happened I'm not prepard to judge him on his departure.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

There are many theories and speculation, no one knows exactly what happened.

What is a fact is that when your emplyer **** you over, you're entitled to a compenasion, when you throw your toys out of the pram and just walk, you're not. Both MON and Houllier got compensation. Simple conclusion is...

[Stu_The_Villan]

I think the most probable reason MoN left was when he saw Stephen Ireland mincing throught the doors at Bodymoor. Thats enough to send any man over the edge

[ChrisNichollsToe]

did he purposely leave at that specific time a couple of days before the new season to screw over the club?

In a word, yes.

Not propaganda. Heared it from two others whom frequent Bodymoor regularly.

As i said in another post. The man has a weird and complex dispostion. Have even heared him being described as as "control freak" from one legend.

[stanthemanisgod]

Not propaganda. Heared it from two others whom frequent Bodymoor regularly.

To be fair that doesn't prove it isn't propaganda, a lot of the Nazi propaganda came straight from the top. Without knowing who these sources are or what they could could possibly gain from discrediting MoN I'm afraid your statement doesn't prove anything.