BG_Villa_Fan Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 So MON should have been sacked for not taking us from 16th to 4th in 3 seasons. Then he should have been sacked after our best season in years And houllier was a good appointment. Classic! Very much this. I strongly believe in time MON will be fully vindicated. Just my opinion, I know this is currently blasphemy in these boards. In due time. The board have lost a lot of the fans already, would be interested if there's a poll how many of the fans they still have on their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 So MON should have been sacked for not taking us from 16th to 4th in 3 seasons. Then he should have been sacked after our best season in years And houllier was a good appointment. Classic! I have to say that I was genuinely surprised to read this. I thought, with one or two obvious exceptions, that everyone had moved on from this 'O'Neill did a good job' thing? Fair play to you for sticking to your guns One thing I will say though is that if you liked O'Neill and disliked Houllier then you'll love McLeish. Right up your street I should think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonVillaGirl Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Great post by PB.... I like many others am aghast that we have gone with Mcleish because of the style of football he seems to encourage his teams to play. However, as I work in football down here in the smoke, I would say to everyone DO NOT believe the figures that the papers are quoting on compensation and the like. Are we seriously to believe that a gentleman as ill as GH could not be dismissed under an ill health clause? And yet the papers would have you believe that he has been "bought" out of his contract. Let's see what the current season brings, and being honest, I don't think there will be much of a transfer kitty for Mcleish... hey ho, the joys of being a Villa fan ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 17, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 17, 2011 Good article Peter and I hope you're right. If that IS the case then the impending transfer window might be a howling success; and we can sort out the litigation afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I have to say that I was genuinely surprised to read this. I thought, with one or two obvious exceptions, that everyone had moved on from this 'O'Neill did a good job' thing? Fair play to you for sticking to your guns One thing I will say though is that if you liked O'Neill and disliked Houllier then you'll love McLeish. Right up your street I should think Yeah let's see the next time we get 64 points and two trips to wembley. You may have been bored winning and challenging the top 4 but average attendances would show a lot of people didn't agree. You're clearly a fan of ineffective keep ball and weak defending so yes you probably won't enjoy this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 if you liked O'Neill and disliked Houllier I think you will find that covers a lot of Villa fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Good to see you back PB, good piece as well. Echoed here! Really well written, incisive and articulate article that. Great stuff, and welcome home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Sometimes decisions are right or wrong not nice or ruthless and should not be confused as such. . indeed. The point I am making however is that decisions in this business, well in pretty much any business really, will probably upset some folks, especially those you are competing with. To be successful you need to be hard headed enough to have confidence in yourself and the decisions you make. It is an error for example to set up an appointment with McLaren and then cancel it because the fans dont like it. If McLaren is the man the board decided was the man then thats who should have got the job. I'm all for listening to the fans, but this pussy footing around around them isnt going to get anyone anywhere. its a bit pathetic frankly. Its a bit like a government making unpopular short term decisions that they hope will work out in the long term. Leadership is like that, you need the vision and then the strength of character to see it through tough times when everyone's telling you that you've got it wrong. As a leader you listen to advice from various sources, you consult with those you lead, and then you decide. Consulting with those you lead is not in any way the same as caving into pressure from them. That's weak leadership. You can only judge things on eventual outcomes against stated targets, not day to day ups and downs. I forget who it was who said that its better to make a wrong decision than make no decision, but in my experience life is like that. [edit] And dont get me wrong, I think McLeish is a wrong decision. Not wrong in the calamitous 'the end of the world is nigh' way that some people think, but wrong in the same way that O'Neill was wrong, football at the very top level isnt played like that any more. I imagine the outcome will be similar, three or four years of mucking about in upper mid table boring the pants off everyone watching. All I can do at this point is hope I'm wrong and he carries on the work Houllier started. I think you are wrong here. I think good leadership/management in business covers two relevant areas here: - getting good people around you - no evidence to suggest that RL has done this as far as I am concerned - and NOT cronies and then consult with/listen to them. You are correct that that doesn't mean you will always take their advice BUT if you are confident that you have put good people around you then you ought to have very strong reasons for going against the majority opinion (although I have no evidence here to suggest RL went against their advice as we do not know who advises him or what advice they gave); and secondly - listen to your customers (the old phrase the customer is always right is often quoted). Now if there were a few dissenters I could understand RL rejecting a minority view BUT this is clearly not the case here and RL is playing a very dangerous game with the people that he needs to be firmly in his corner. He has risked ripping the heart out of our club and this just does not make financial sense to me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 17, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted June 17, 2011 This thing about [essentially] "Grow a pair, and appoint who you think best" has it's place. Then again, good business practice does not ignore the wishes of the customers - while businesses (and football clubs) almost never allow customers (or fans) to decide who should manage, they do well to listen to views of their customer/fan base, in who not to appoint. Greenpeace would not appoint the former head of BP Tony Hayward to their board. Not only would he be a bad fit, but his record hardly recommends him as a success. Not for a minute would they contemplate it, despite his history in energy industries, including Green fuels. Greenpeace would lose credibility, lose income and lose support. The spoff the club have come out with, about a good fit of ethos and work and God knows what is tosh. It's no such thing. As has been said many times, negative football, dull games, relegations, no record of bringing through the youth, a fair wedge spent, too - these are not the things the Club implied they were looking for a few weeks ago. Now I hope he does well, I wish him well, I wish Villa and Randy and Paul well. They're all good people, but they've collectively lost their marbles, it seems. None of them appear to have made a well thought through rational decision. A large salary increase and a job in the Prem will no doubt appeal to Alex McLeish, more outweighing the problems he will sadly get from the less balanced members of society, Royal Blue, or Claret & blue, in his mind. But Randy and Paul seem to have clutched at a straw that fell their way, whether they went and "found" it, whether it was thrust into their increasingly desperate palm, or whether nothing untoward went on at all. The process has been a mess, it's been poorly communicated and a bit of a shambles. They seem to have listened to Fergie, and perhaps wisely so, he's a good judge of many things. He's also incredibly, commendably, loyal to his former charges, helping THEM out when he can. Whether our owner and CEO have balanced his advice out seems...well... unlikely. I think they just had a poor process, thus failed to achieve what they wanted, got stuck, and decided, "Sod it, he'll do, because our need for someone is so urgent that we'll just grab this bloke as it's easy and we can put it to bed." Acct in haste, repent at leisure. It was right that the fans didn't decide who was manager, but in the cases of McLaren and McLeish, there's a very strong case to say the voices should not be ignored. I think it's a monumental cock up The last bloke who came from small heath to Villa, to have a role in running the club was a bloke called Ellis, and (for me) his failings outweighed his strengths. I hate it when history repeats itself, because people won't learn. Maybe someone's grown a pair, somewhere, but it's at the expense of their grey matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 They seem to have listened to Fergie, and perhaps wisely so, he's a good judge of many things. Hmmm. Lets hope he's not a Veron, Djemba Djemba, Obertan or Bebe then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I thought it was a good original post....one that i can relate too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 So MON should have been sacked for not taking us from 16th to 4th in 3 seasons. Then he should have been sacked after our best season in years And houllier was a good appointment. Classic! I have to say that I was genuinely surprised to read this. I thought, with one or two obvious exceptions, that everyone had moved on from this 'O'Neill did a good job' thing? Fair play to you for sticking to your guns One thing I will say though is that if you liked O'Neill and disliked Houllier then you'll love McLeish. Right up your street I should think What on earth made you think that ? None of the fans I know personally are glad he's gone. Most of those I know feel, like me, he was let down by a Board who revised their ambitions drastically - without telling the fans - and was our single best hope of getting somwhere special for the rest of our lifetimes. In addition, we enjoyed a lot of games under MON , and had no issues with his style. Some dross, yes, but watch ANY side next year other than Arsenal and see how many times they get you out your seat. As for Randy Lerner, I have had a growing feeling for at least a year that he knows nothing about running a Football Club, and the last 2 months have clinched it for me. What a farce, utter farce. And it will get worse, as investment appears to be about to shrink too. If an owner is NOT going to plough a lot of money in, and seeks only to run Club within means, then any of us could do it, and the sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardCanning Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 What on earth made you think that ? None of the fans I know personally are glad he's gone. Most of those I know feel, like me, he was let down by a Board who revised their ambitions drastically - without telling the fans - and was our single best hope of getting somwhere special for the rest of our lifetimes. In addition, we enjoyed a lot of games under MON , and had no issues with his style. Some dross, yes, but watch ANY side next year other than Arsenal and see how many times they get you out your seat. As for Randy Lerner, I have had a growing feeling for at least a year that he knows nothing about running a Football Club, and the last 2 months have clinched it for me. What a farce, utter farce. And it will get worse, as investment appears to be about to shrink too. If an owner is NOT going to plough a lot of money in, and seeks only to run Club within means, then any of us could do it, and the sooner the better. Have to agree with this. MON was the best thing this club has had in years. It may not be a popular viewpoint with some on here but it is backed by facts: sixth place finishes and a cup final. Lets see if McLeish manages that because I have the feeling he can't manage his way out of a paper bag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villafan101 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 People that keep knocking Mcleish because of the football, can we please just see what he can do with a half decent team before we make so many assumptions! exactly, give the man a chance, lets see who he brings in. Showing the guts to come here should at least give him the right for a bit of grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgoth Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 MON"s third season was a joke. revolting players and Wembley. the worst play to watch and still sixth in Prem. It was sure that Milner must go and 5-6 players run away from sittin on the bench, so MON wanted to rebuild the team but Lerner have no money and MON has got high contracts players on the terrace. Who should pay them? MON's managerial skills ruin Villa. I was happy he's left and the way he did it show what a *** he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 So Lerner is derided (not sacking MON) and praised (backing Houllier) for having faith in his manager all in the space of one article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBGB Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Have to agree with Bland over Bosworth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanfromluton Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Lerner is a businessman, but has treated us Villa fans well IMHO. Lets just give the manager a chance and see how we get on. I dont think for one minute that McLeish will play the same style (or lack of it) that he did at the sty, got better players and hopefully will do a good job. While I dont agree with the appointment, I am backing the chairman who has been brilliant for our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks1876 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Nice post Bosworth! I too have reclined my seat and can't wait to see the outcome, so we have given Mcleish £40 million to spend (if we believe the media)! "Is that not asking for trouble?" I can not see Mcleish experince and Randys wealth bringing in decent players on such a small budget (Young and Downing alone are worth £30/35 million if we sell both) basicaly we have given Mcleish £5 million to replace the 10/15 players that have left or are likley to leave this season, That is not a budget! "that's pocket money!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 So Lerner is derided (not sacking MON) and praised (backing Houllier) for having faith in his manager all in the space of one article? There are times when backing the manager the right thing to do. For example, when the manager is working with another guy's team, trying to totally change the style of play, dealing with "player power" and is just a couple of months into the job. There comes a time however, when continued backing of a manager is weak. For example, when you have given a manager the resources required to achieve a certain target, and he fails to achieve that target within a reasonable time frame. Prematurely binning a manager just because he is unpopular with the fans would be as weak as not binning a manager just because he was popular, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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