Barry Bannan

[PauloBarnesi]

remember Bannan being linked with a £12mill move to arsenal some years back in norwegian newspapers. Funny to think about.

(Villa got loads of coverage in the media because of Carew)

And who says journalists don’t have a sense of humour. More chance of Arsenal buying Morten Harket for £12 million...

[avfc1982am]

You cannot deny that the team has performed better in his presence. 17/18 points won with him on the field.

He is a set pieces taker who knits together the play in the middle of the park. He's also got vision for the long ball and through balls.

If we go down he'll be sold to another Premiership club. Swansea, perhaps.

But by then it will be too late to say "put that in your pipe and smoke it" - unless you are Barry Bannan, of course.

Remember a lot of - but not all - Arsenal fans have hated Theo Walcott for just about the whole of his career - until now.

Walcott has continued to improve well into his 20s and proven his critics wrong. He's become a key player for Arsenal.

Bannan has more to do for Villa fans but those who still think he's a useful player can have the self-belief they are not completely mad.

Its the long ball's bit that has got me there mate. I agree in that when he does the simple stuff he does it well but don't give me the crap about being able to play a long ball. One thing about bannan is it's something he can't do. I've watched him so much this season trying to play 40,50 yard diagonal balls when there was an easier pass only to give it away and put us under pressure. And he doesn't have the pace,strength or balance of walcott or lennon for that matter. They both had much more in their respective lockers at 23 than bannan so thats a non starter..

[Con]

Its the long ball's bit that has got me there mate. I agree in that when he does the simple stuff he does it well but don't give me the crap about being able to play a long ball. One thing about bannan is it's something he can't do. I've watched him so much this season trying to play 40,50 yard diagonal balls when there was an easier pass only to give it away and put us under pressure. And he doesn't have the pace,strength or balance of walcott or lennon for that matter. They both had much more in their respective lockers at 23 than bannan so thats a non starter..

Bannan gets stick for his long balls but they have improved. 7/8 of Bannan's long balls against Wigan were on target. It was his very long free kick to the head of Benteke which lead to a goal-scoring chance for Holman. That long free kick wasn't a hit-and-hope. It had pace and a fairly low trajectory, and Benteke was able to give a superb knock-down.

Another thing about the long ball is, while he can be criticised if it is on target or not, it's not always his decision-making whether he plays the ball long or gives it short. The manager knows Bannan will get a certain amount of touches during the match and will tell him before the match whether he wants him to play it short or go for the quick long ball.

This "hollywood ball" Bannan reputation may have been McLeish's tactics, not Bannan's choice.

As for comparisons with other players, he is not like Walcott or Lennon. They are wingers or strikers. They have pace, which is a weapon even when they're young headless chickens.

Bannan is a central midfielder. He needs to be composed at all times, which stats show he's improving on. There are very few comparisons to him in this league.

Closest comparisons in Premier League to Barry Bannan's playing style are:

Leon Osman - Everton

Joe Allen - Liverpool

Leon Britton - Swansea

Comparing him to Frank Lampard, Mohamed Diame or Aaron Lennon doesn't demonstrate the strongest understanding of the game... IMO.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Con

[sutherland]

Never a top flight footballer, Just like 80% of our current squad!..

[jacketspuds]

Bannan is crap. If he was so good he would be starring for Scotland, who are also crap.

As for being a set piece specialist, someone is taking the piss. Our whole midfield apart from Westwood needs replacing.

[spiezels]

He was the only one to play any attacking balls up the channels yesterday.

[DANNY_DYER]

You cannot deny that the team has performed better in his presence. 17/18 points won with him on the field.

He is a set pieces taker who knits together the play in the middle of the park. He's also got vision for the long ball and through balls.

If we go down he'll be sold to another Premiership club. Swansea, perhaps.

But by then it will be too late to say "put that in your pipe and smoke it" - unless you are Barry Bannan, of course.

Remember a lot of - but not all - Arsenal fans have hated Theo Walcott for just about the whole of his career - until now.

Walcott has continued to improve well into his 20s and proven his critics wrong. He's become a key player for Arsenal.

Bannan has more to do for Villa fans but those who still think he's a useful player can have the self-belief they are not completely mad.

His set pieces are a joke, his defensive side of his game is non existent he couldn't hold down a place at Cov, Derby or Blackpool so why is he good enough for us ??

Poor player get rid.

[avfc1982am]

Bannan gets stick for his long balls but they have improved. 7/8 of Bannan's long balls against Wigan were on target. It was his very long free kick to the head of Benteke which lead to a goal-scoring chance for Holman. That long free kick wasn't a hit-and-hope. It had pace and a fairly low trajectory, and Benteke was able to give a superb knock-down.

Another thing about the long ball is, while he can be criticised if it is on target or not, it's not always his decision-making whether he plays the ball long or gives it short. The manager knows Bannan will get a certain amount of touches during the match and will tell him before the match whether he wants him to play it short or go for the quick long ball.

This "hollywood ball" Bannan reputation may have been McLeish's tactics, not Bannan's choice.

As for comparisons with other players, he is not like Walcott or Lennon. They are wingers or strikers. They have pace, which is a weapon even when they're young headless chickens.

Bannan is a central midfielder. He needs to be composed at all times, which stats show he's improving on. There are very few comparisons to him in this league.

Closes comparisons in Premier League to Barry Bannan's playing style are:

Leon Osman - Everton

Joe Allen - Liverpool

Leon Britton - Swansea

Comparing him to Frank Lampard, Mohamed Diame or Aaron Lennon doesn't demonstrate the strongest understanding of the game... IMO.

I think your also missing the point I made. I didn't compare him with anyone especially not Lampard or Diame so what you on about? what I did state was that Walcott and Lennon had in fact different strengths and that comparisons were a non starter. And as for his passing what I did say was that when he played it simple he played well. I'm not interested in his pass stats. They miss vital ingredients when assessing a performance . The areas the ball was played into, whether or not the passes were played into space,traffic or whether or not the player receiving the ball in fact lost it after completion because the pass put them under needless pressure, and was there a better option? And in my opinion watching nearly every game this season there have been many occasions when he has given the ball away through trying to play the long ball. Whether the pass reaches or not is irrelevant.

All players are given instructions as to the areas they are to pass the ball into however to suggest that bannan is possibly not responsible for his own decision making during the game doesn't suggest you have a strong understanding of the game either...IMO.

[Con]

I think your also missing the point I made. I didn't compare him with anyone especially not Lampard or Diame so what you on about?

I was answering with the knowledge other people - who might be reading - have said they'd like a player like Diame in CM. My point is Bannan is not equivalent to Diame, just like he cannot be compared to Walcott or Lennon. You can't compare the two.

what I did state was that Walcott and Lennon had in fact different strengths and that comparisons were a non starter. And as for his passing what I did say was that when he played it simple he played well.

It's the manager's responsibility to play players to their strengths. If Bannan plays too many long balls then it's the manager's decision to make him do that. That's the way I read the game.

Bannan doesn't make long balls because he wants to look all Hollywood - at least I don't think he does.

I'm not interested in his pass stats. They miss vital ingredients when assessing a performance . The areas the ball was played into, whether or not the passes were played into space,traffic or whether or not the player receiving the ball in fact lost it after completion because the pass put them under needless pressure, and was there a better option?

Passing stats relevance, as you imply, can only be assessed in light of other stats. These other stats can themselves be influenced by the quality of players around Bannan not Bannan himself (do they move to find space, is their first touch good?).

Whilst agreeing with you on this I think it is wrong to ignore all statistics. If you ignore statistics you end up saying something that is completely opposite to the truth. There is a balance to be struck between over-using statistics and not using at all. Statistics when used should should be justified with other evidence that supports the interpretation you are making.

So if you say high pass % means he is a good player you should also say that when Bannan plays one, two, or three other positive things happen, suggesting a correlation between his high pass % and this other positive outcome. E.g. when player with high pass% plays the team scores more goals, wins more games, maintains higher % possession than when he does not play.

And in my opinion watching nearly every game this season there have been many occasions when he has given the ball away through trying to play the long ball. Whether the pass reaches or not is irrelevant.

Again, I'm not willing to criticise Bannan's decision between long and short ball because I don't know whether it is his or the manager's tactical instruction to him.

All players are given instructions as to the areas they are to pass the ball into however to suggest that bannan is possibly not responsible for his own decision making during the game doesn't suggest you have a strong understanding of the game either...IMO.

If the manager's decision is to have a mixed ball system, and to leave it to the player to decide what to do, then yes, it is the player's decision.

If a team plays long ball, short ball - that is the manager's decision. If that is the case then the quality of the long or short ball, where the ball goes, is down to the skill of the player.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Con

[avfc1982am]

Listen mate I didn't say I wasn't interested in stats full stop did I, just his? I'm interested in the team playing shit, why and the remedy.

we could sit here all night debating this stat that stat, whether or not this player moved in to the right space, was his first touch shit, whether or not the manager is completely responsible or partially for the decision making of the player or even if when he's on the pitch the other players play better because he drags players out of position or gives the other players a hard on with his influence.

The bottom line is Villa this season are without any doubt shit. Non existent in the central midfield including Bannan even when playing 3 therefore the central midfielders need dropping and replacing. If you honestly believe that Bannan is carrying out Lambert's decisions whilst in play then one of two thing's need to happen. Either Bannan needs replacing because he can't carry out instructions or Lambert needs to get sacked through poor decision making giving Bannan a role he's shit in. Or should we just leave things as they are because we are all overreacting and everything will sort itself out?! You keep looking at your stats.

[Con]

Listen mate I didn't say I wasn't interested in stats full stop did I, just his? I'm interested in the team playing shit, why and the remedy.

we could sit here all night debating this stat that stat, whether or not this player moved in to the right space, was his first touch shit, whether or not the manager is completely responsible or partially for the decision making of the player or even if when he's on the pitch the other players play better because he drags players out of position or gives the other players a hard on with his influence.

I don't want to come to a conclusion before looking at the stats. It's the way I read the game. Stats first... then make an interpretation.

If you make an interpretation first you can be mislead by your biases. For example, some people just don't like players below 6' playing for their team.

Without stats to show them shorter players can be good because they are short they might never work out they are wrong.

BTW glad you agree that stats cannot be ignored, and I realise you never said they should be ignored (and I never claimed you did).

The bottom line is Villa this season are without any doubt shit. Non existent in the central midfield including Bannan even when playing 3 therefore the central midfielders need dropping and replacing. If you honestly believe that Bannan is carrying out Lambert's decisions whilst in play then one of two thing's need to happen. Either Bannan needs replacing because he can't carry out instructions or Lambert needs to get sacked through poor decision making giving Bannan a role he's shit in. Or should we just leave things as they are because we are all overreacting and everything will sort itself out?! You keep looking at your stats.

We're very inconsistent. The two teams below us are consistently shit. We have had great results against Liverpool 1-3 and Manchester City 2-4 (in the League Cup).

0-0s against Arsenal and Stoke showed our defensive capabilities. The 1-4 Norwich result was also good.

We've had some shit results too. I don't put all the blame for those on Bannan like I don't give him all the credit for the good ones.

The point that I'd want to get across is Bannan is probably the best we currently have so should start until we get a better player for that position. I'd argue the stats don't disagree with this interpretation.

Westwood is great - plays well with Bannan - although I'd warn against the novelty factor of him not being Barry Bannan.

Can we buy better than Bannan in the January transfer window? Yes, of course! I'm not Bannan's agent. I'm not going to push for us to play him if it is not good for us.

Now, will buy someone? Who knows? Certainly not opposed to buying more strength in midfield. But until then Bannan is the best we've got and it would be a bit churlish to deny him that respect.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Con

[AndyM3000]

His set pieces are a joke, his defensive side of his game is non existent he couldn't hold down a place at Cov, Derby or Blackpool so why is he good enough for us ??

Poor player get rid.

He wasn't even on loan at Coventry and he played every game possible for Derby and 20 for Bpool.

People dislike this kid so much they just make shit up off the top of their heads. He's probably our only midfielder who is trying to create stuff and im afraid the only person who he can aim at to do set a chance up for is Benteke.

[DANNY_DYER]

He wasn't even on loan at Coventry and he played every game possible for Derby and 20 for Bpool.

People dislike this kid so much they just make shit up off the top of their heads. He's probably our only midfielder who is trying to create stuff and im afraid the only person who he can aim at to do set a chance up for is Benteke.

Apologies it was Leeds, not Cov.

He's not a good player so the point still stands.

[TrentVilla]

No stats will change my view on him, just not good enough. I don't care how many points we've achieved when he was on the pitch, I could just as easily point at stats like how many goals we've conceded with him on the pitch or games we've failed to win or get a point from.

Considering he is supposed to be a creative midfield player take a look at his stats for goals and assists.

Woeful player.

[Chindie]

I'd gladly never see him take a corner again. I can barely kick a ball and I'm convinced I'd do better.

[Con]

No stats will change my view on him, just not good enough. I don't care how many points we've achieved when he was on the pitch, I could just as easily point at stats like how many goals we've conceded with him on the pitch

Why are you guessing the stats?

You can "just as easily" point to any stat if you're going to completely invent something.

Over the first 19 games he conceded 22 in 1180 minutes of football. That works out as 1 goal every 54 minutes.

Ireland conceded 13 in 680 minutes of play: 1 goal every 52 minutes.

Over 932 minutes Westwood conceded 1 goal every 55 minutes.

El Ahmadi 1 goal every 52 minutes.

Delph 1 goal every 52 minutes.

or games we've failed to win or get a point from.

There are 2 central midfield spots. The above 5 midfielders have played a combined 4408 minutes, of which only 2204 minutes are available to 1 player.

Over the first 19 games Bannan has played roughly 54% of the available minutes of one central midfield spot for Villa.

Despite playing for only 54% of the available time, Bannan's time playing coincided with 17 of 18 points we have so far achieved.

That's 94% of our points. If Bannan had played 100% of the available time in one midfield spot instead of 54%, one has to ask... how many more points would we have?

Considering he is supposed to be a creative midfield player take a look at his stats for goals and assists.

Woeful player.

As was discussed earlier with avfc1982am, quoting statistics in isolation of other statistics doesn't tell us anything.

[Con]

W D L Delph 1 4 4 Ireland 2 2 7 Westwood 4 3 4 Bannan 4 5 7 El Ahmadi 1 5 6

Points (higher is better):

Bannan: 17

Westwood: 15

El Ahmadi: 8

Ireland: 8

Delph: 7

Minutes played per point (lower is better):

Westwood: 62

Bannan: 69

Delph: 82

Ireland: 85

El Ahmadi: 130

[darrenm]

Shining diamond in a shower of shit yesterday. Him and KEA were both very positive and the only ones who can really come out of the game with any credit.

[TezzRexx]

I think he's a decent player but he has the worst attitude.

[Laivasse]

He's just bad. Saying 'we scored most of our points with Bannan on the pitch' proves only one thing - Lambert likes him. He's played Bannan 17 times in the league, including 14 starts, which is more than any of our other midfielders apart from Holman. So what? It's one of many things Lambert has got wrong. If anything, as one of our most regular midfield starters we should be asking why Bannan hasn't made more of an impact on our season (hint: it's because he's shit).