VillaChris Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I don't think the likes of Young or Barry could have dragged us to safety 3 years in a row like Benteke did. 2013 Benteke was special. We'll be lucky if we ever have a CF that good again. Barry gets in for longevity, basically our Giggs especially as he was top class in at least two positions over a long period of time. Now Young was generally very good but in a very specific way and style under O'Neill. And it was for arguably a short period of time. His best season was 07/08, set up so many for Carew and Laursen that year but I don't think he was quite as good in 08/09 and his overall influence was starting to diminish in 09/10 (Milner was far more important that year once we moved him centrally). 10/11 Houllier had that fascination with playing him in number 10 position which didn't really work imo. Kudos for the second spell though, came back and played a big part in returning us to europe which he said he'd do in one of his first interviews after returning. Emi-McGrath-Barry-Grealish-Benteke would be some five a side team. Edited September 19, 2023 by VillaChris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 6 hours ago, VillaChris said: Barry gets in for longevity, basically our Giggs especially as he was top class in at least two positions over a long period of time. Now Young was generally very good but in a very specific way and style under O'Neill. And it was for arguably a short period of time. His best season was 07/08, set up so many for Carew and Laursen that year but I don't think he was quite as good in 08/09 and his overall influence was starting to diminish in 09/10 (Milner was far more important that year once we moved him centrally). 10/11 Houllier had that fascination with playing him in number 10 position which didn't really work imo. Kudos for the second spell though, came back and played a big part in returning us to europe which he said he'd do in one of his first interviews after returning. Emi-McGrath-Barry-Grealish-Benteke would be some five a side team. He won player of the month twice in 2008/09 and was one of the reasons we were so high in the table. He dragged us through poor performances. I remember a Sky game at Hull we were rotten and he won us the game with a cross that a Hull defender sliced in. Was another game at West Ham and the Everton one too Young actually played more games for Villa than Grealish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Oaks said: This 100%, it winds me up when fans whos seen them both play put Jack in the team over Young. Their raw numbers are not even comparable. It's just recent bias most likely. Young was an insane footballer in the late 2000's Edited September 20, 2023 by Pinebro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 7 hours ago, VillaChris said: Would genuinely put Benteke in there. He was incredible for months on end alongside a shower of s*** whereas the others were of course very good but plenty in overall strong Villa teams. He was our best all round CF since Yorke (at least until Diaby really gets going). Benteke also regularly turned up in big games for us aswell. Could be argued that it's easier to stand out when you are surrounded by absolute garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, Pinebro said: It's just recent bias most likely. Young was an insane footballer in the late 2000's Young was part of a very good side, doing very good things. His numbers were still basically the same as Grealish's, who was a youngster in a side battling relegation. There's no recency bias about it; Young was very good but Grealish was genuinely special. Irreplaceable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, bobzy said: Young was part of a very good side, doing very good things. His numbers were still basically the same as Grealish's, who was a youngster in a side battling relegation. There's no recency bias about it; Young was very good but Grealish was genuinely special. Irreplaceable. Grealish was 24/25 in a side battling relegation hardly a youngster. They were pretty much the same age when they had best years at Villa Young also played with Heskey, Harewood and Gabby hardly elite strikers. Look how Gabby numbers collapsed when he left 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 8 hours ago, VillaChris said: Barry gets in for longevity, basically our Giggs especially as he was top class in at least two positions over a long period of time. Now Young was generally very good but in a very specific way and style under O'Neill. And it was for arguably a short period of time. His best season was 07/08, set up so many for Carew and Laursen that year but I don't think he was quite as good in 08/09 and his overall influence was starting to diminish in 09/10 (Milner was far more important that year once we moved him centrally). 10/11 Houllier had that fascination with playing him in number 10 position which didn't really work imo. Kudos for the second spell though, came back and played a big part in returning us to europe which he said he'd do in one of his first interviews after returning. Emi-McGrath-Barry-Grealish-Benteke would be some five a side team. This is bang on. Young was very good and I loved the guy but there’s no way he would have been as good/important in any other playing style than MON’s “get it to young to cross for Carew” style. I agree with other posters that young and Barry ultimately had more impact. But grealish at his peak was the best we’ve had for quite some time. As much as anything the fact that we all think he’s “underperforming” despite being a first team player in a side which has just won the treble speaks to that point. Young and Barry wouldn’t get anywhere near this Pep team 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, JPJCB said: This is bang on. Young was very good and I loved the guy but there’s no way he would have been as good/important in any other playing style than MON’s “get it to young to cross for Carew” style. I agree with other posters that young and Barry ultimately had more impact. But grealish at his peak was the best we’ve had for quite some time. As much as anything the fact that we all think he’s “underperforming” despite being a first team player in a side which has just won the treble speaks to that point. Young and Barry wouldn’t get anywhere near this Pep team He captained Manchester United and won the league with Inter Milan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Grealish was 24/25 in a side battling relegation hardly a youngster. They were pretty much the same age when they had best years at Villa Young also played with Heskey, Harewood and Gabby hardly elite strikers. Look how Gabby numbers collapsed when he left They may well have been the same age; I'm not sure why that matters. One was performing (very well) in a good side, one was performing (very well) in a poor side. Our main attack was Young, Carew (weird omission from your list?) and Agbonlahor from that time - loads of pace, with a good aerial presence. We've also already stated about a billion times how Grealish was more often the "assist to the assist". He literally dragged us through some terrible games by being an exceptional player. Young didn't do this. He was a very good player, but didn't dictate games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: They may well have been the same age; I'm not sure why that matters. One was performing (very well) in a good side, one was performing (very well) in a poor side. Our main attack was Young, Carew (weird omission from your list?) Well you said Grealish was a youngster in a relegation battle when compared them I omitted Carew as he was good compared the other 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 10 hours ago, Keyblade said: We'll be lucky if we ever have a CF that good again. Ask and you shall receive... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, Zatman said: Well you said Grealish was a youngster in a relegation battle when compared them I omitted Carew as he was good compared the other 3 Apologies - Young was a youngster in a very good side. ...and at least you've got the honesty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: He captained Manchester United and won the league with Inter Milan. If you think he had as big an impact playing for those clubs as he did when he played for MON then fair enough but I strongly disagree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, JPJCB said: If you think he had as big an impact playing for those clubs as he did when he played for MON then fair enough but I strongly disagree He made the World Cup team of the tournament in 2018 so was making an impact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Just now, Zatman said: He made the World Cup team of the tournament in 2018 so was making an impact Fair enough- I disagree. And worth noting that young never really came as close as grealish to solidifying his place in the England team as a left winger (albeit grealish still faces competition). He made team of the tournament as a reliable if unspectacular left back. Maybe you think young was the best left back in the world at that time as justified by his inclusion in that team. Again I fundamentally disagree. Andto the original point, I think top managers with 07/08 Young at their disposal vs 20/21 grealish would be more likely to pick grealish in their team (though the ideal would be to play them both). I don’t think young would get anywhere near this pep Man City team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2023 23 hours ago, DCJonah said: Yes he's got his trophies but in 20 years no one at villa and no one at city will care about him. Just like Barry. Whereas he could have had a statue built outside here if he'd stayed as captain and led us to some glory I imagine 99% of footballers would choose the former Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2023 15 hours ago, Davkaus said: Grealish's output in terms of direct goals and assists has never been impressive. It speaks volumes about how **** good he is that it doesn't really matter. Young or Grealish? I wouldn't think twice before picking Jack. 100% Young was brilliant for us. I loved him. But Grealish is the best player I’ve seen at Villa for 20 years 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 4 hours ago, bobzy said: Young was part of a very good side, doing very good things. His numbers were still basically the same as Grealish's, who was a youngster in a side battling relegation. There's no recency bias about it; Young was very good but Grealish was genuinely special. Irreplaceable. Young's four full seasons under us were always consistent with 27 goals and 42 assists. Grealish only really found his feet under Deano. The ability was always there, just always question marks about his fitness and application. He looked lost under the likes of Bruce - as terrible as a manager as he was, I don't think you could say he was as crucial when we first went down. Young was crucial in helping us get three successive top 6 six finishes under MON alongside the likes of Carew, Gabby, Milner and Barry. We are also talking about two distinct eras and styles of play in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 36 minutes ago, The_Steve said: Young's four full seasons under us were always consistent with 27 goals and 42 assists. Grealish only really found his feet under Deano. The ability was always there, just always question marks about his fitness and application. As were Grealish’s two seasons in the Prem with us with 14 goals and 16 assists; whilst largely being assessed as a player who lacked end product and could do more in front of goal. This was never (from memory?) levelled at Young, and rightly so. Grealish was the lynchpin of the side; dragged us on many occasions. Completely agree about different playing styles and eras - probably enabled more output from attackers “back in the day” as teams regularly played with 2 up top. Could be well off on that though Also, happened to view an “all Jack Grealish Villa goals” video earlier. You just forget how good he is technically sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) Jack was superb in the lockdown season. A lot of players numbers was skewed that season. Of his 16 goal contributions almost a third of them were in one game. But i think he would have sailed past 20 goal contributions even if his numbers did slow down. Theres only 5 Villa players who have done that in 30 years of the premier league. Yorke twice, Young, Benteke and Watkins last season. Unfortunately injury stopped that. I still pick Bosnich as my best keeper in my all time team. The amount of seasons he's played and ive seen him life 2 trophies, but Martinez is definitely a better keeper in 2 of his 3 seasons ( he struggled his second season for many reasons), he can kick a ball for one. It takes more than a season or 2 to surpass Bozzie and probably needs to win a trophy, Edited September 20, 2023 by Oaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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