coda Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 pantomine villan. Great pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 But the post repeats the old Tory trope that entrepreneurs are somehow more heroic than people who work in the public sector or are ordinary workers in someone else's enterprise. This claim to the moral high-ground tends to form the basis for the extensive privileges of Capital over Labour and I feel it should always be questioned. No I don't suggest entrepreneurs are more heroic, but that given the risks, they rarely deserve the hate and venom directed towards them for becoming financially successful. Hence my personal attitude is usually more "good on 'em" than "right, let's tax those rich greedy feckers some more, they can afford it..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Sorry, he hasn't said people want to improve their lot, he said greed and envy were good. If we did all take Boris seriously and adopt that stance, where would one nation conservatism and big society be? Personally, I don't count being against greed and envy as moral high ground, anymore than I'd count not mugging people or not committing fraud as moral high ground. I suppose appearing to take the moral high ground can be quite easy when discussing the ethics of Boris style conservatives. If you don't enjoy the greed, but agree with it, well that's just odd surely? Reluctantly greedy? Unavoidably greedy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) If you don't enjoy the greed, but agree with it, well that's just odd surely? Reluctantly greedy? Unavoidably greedy? I recognise that greed is an unavoidable consequence of human nature that can flourish in a capitalist society - and in every society there has ever been. It's not a virtue but I don't see it as a huge vice either, it just 'is' and helps to drive the machine as those who wish to endlessly accumulate generally contribute more through general taxation as a consequence. Does that mean that I personally aspire to be greedy? No, or I'd be paid far more to exploite the people I try to help by those who wish to exploit them. EDIT: BTW, you don't like greed and you dislike envy.... are you one of those Christians? Edited November 29, 2013 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 On Boris' comments: Is greed an essential driver to increasing economic activity? Yes. If everyone was happy with their lot then who would start new companies and employ people, growing the economy, increasing the tax take and providing the cash to fund universal public services? If it wasn't because they wanted "more", who would be prepared to risk their own assets as collateral for a loan from those god awful banks and spend their time building a company instead of playing with the kids, or watching the footy, or getting pissed? As to whether saying some people are not as bright as others.... is that really a contentious statement? that's awful Do you really believe greed is essential? Greed? I have a desire to improve the lot of my family, of those around me and the whole planet. I want to improve the conditions for my kids and people I won't ever meet that won't be born until after I'm gone. I can improve the lot of my family by working hard, being innovative, helping the economy, helping the community, pushing good causes, donating time and money where good can be done. I'm no saint, I just believe in basic common good. Enjoy the greed. So basically you just want more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I would like for my family to be happy, healthy, educated, and aware, I do not require excess to achieve that, I do not need to envy others to strive for that. I am not a hippy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Frankly, I'm not sure a way of life based on greed and exploitation is desirable, nor do I think it is sustainable. Currently it is the system we have and if you don't want to live on the streets, you need to play the game accordingly, and while I hear (and agree with) plenty of talk about the need to change, no one will do anything about it because when it comes to it, they don't want to give up their television, internet connection, endless food and comfort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 But the post repeats the old Tory trope that entrepreneurs are somehow more heroic than people who work in the public sector or are ordinary workers in someone else's enterprise. This claim to the moral high-ground tends to form the basis for the extensive privileges of Capital over Labour and I feel it should always be questioned. No I don't suggest entrepreneurs are more heroic, but that given the risks, they rarely deserve the hate and venom directed towards them for becoming financially successful. Hence my personal attitude is usually more "good on 'em" than "right, let's tax those rich greedy feckers some more, they can afford it..." It does seem like you do because you list their virtues and their sacrifices, which suggests that these things are not to be found in ordinary workers, who you imply are likely to be pissed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 ...or watching football, or playing with their kids.... People see/read into a comment whatever they want to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 It is possible to be successful without being greedy. For Boris to extoll that particular human trait, is rather sad. Eddie Meyer was right, underneath the veneer of jovial buffoonery, he is a "nasty piece of work". More of this and he'll walk the race to be the next leader of the nasty party. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 It is possible to be successful without being greedy. For Boris to extoll that particular human trait, is rather sad. Eddie Meyer was right, underneath the veneer of jovial buffoonery, he is a "nasty piece of work". More of this and he'll walk the race to be the next leader of the nasty party. I thought they might go for Balls once they get rid of Milliband, Boris would be a strange choice for them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 ...or watching football, or playing with their kids.... People see/read into a comment whatever they want to. Or doing 40+ hours a week as a care worker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 ...or watching football, or playing with their kids.... People see/read into a comment whatever they want to. But as I wrote, you are suggesting that they are making a sacrifice no one else makes because others are free to watch football or play with their kids and the entrepreneur is not. That is how it reads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) The government paid Goldman Sachs for advice on the RM fire sale. Genius. Perhaps wiser than asking the Co-op. Edited November 29, 2013 by Awol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 ...or watching football, or playing with their kids.... People see/read into a comment whatever they want to. But as I wrote, you are suggesting that they are making a sacrifice no one else makes because others are free to watch football or play with their kids and the entrepreneur is not. That is how it reads. No, I'm saying that they are taking a risk others are not, frequently involving the roof over their head. Not that this marks them out as "heroic", I didn't say that, however should they be successful and not end up homeless then I won't resent them for getting rich, or "greedy" if some would interpret it that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 The government paid Goldman Sachs for advice on the RM fire sale. Genius. Perhaps wiser than asking the Co-op.Well, I ain't no spokesman for the co-op but Goldman Sachs, really?? What were they thinking? What they were thinking was 'we really don't give a ****', and they really don't, in the pursuit of their goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 The government paid Goldman Sachs for advice on the RM fire sale. Genius. Perhaps wiser than asking the Co-op. Well, I ain't no spokesman for the co-op but Goldman Sachs, really?? What were they thinking? What they were thinking was 'we really don't give a ****', and they really don't, in the pursuit of their goal. Wrong question if I may say so. The right question is why sell the Post Office at all? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Indeed, why? I was merely putting that 'little' question to one side and querying the process, which seems to have added, in my opinion insult to injury. A great public asset sold off for a pittance, in a not wholly whiter than white manner. Do you feel ripped off? You should. I do. We all should. Who exactly are these paid public servants working for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 More DWP grimness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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