blandy Posted October 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, limpid said: I don't understand that leap. They might be selling them at a loss. Highly doubtful. They already make Nexus phones in quantity, many parts will be shared/similar. While these new pixel phones may have more expensive cases or cameras or whatever, the difference in price will more than cover it - if you look at the figures from breakdown costs (where people take phones apart and add the value of all the components, and then factor in wages and assy. costs etc.) high end smart phones from other manufacturers make big money for them at similar price points to the pixel phones. iPhone 6 had a 60%+ profit margin, for example. They care about making money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 5, 2016 Administrator Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 minute ago, blandy said: They already make Nexus phones in quantity, many parts will be shared/similar. Google don't make the Nexus phones. They just badge them. The Pixel phones are sold to Google by HTC. Nexus devices were made by Samsung, LG, Motorola, Huawei, Asus and HTC. Google pay for a finished device, not components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 5, 2016 My mistake on Nexus, apologies. But regardless, these new pixel phones are (according to Google themselves) Quote ...a family of products that brings people the best of Google through hardware and software made by Google. We're excited that the lineup features the first phone made by Google inside and out — Pixel. For those of you who have followed Google closely, that name may sound familiar to you because we've used the Pixel name in the past for consumer hardware products that represented an overall premium Google experience. Many of you may also be familiar with the Nexus program. Since 2010, we’ve partnered closely with mobile handset partners around the world to bring you the best of Android. Through Nexus, the goal was to work with these various partners to push the boundaries of what’s possible with a smartphone. We’ve now decided to take the next step and provide our take on the best Google experience, by bringing hardware and software design together under one roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 5, 2016 Administrator Share Posted October 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, blandy said: My mistake on Nexus, apologies. But regardless, these new pixel phones are (according to Google themselves) The Pixel phones are made by HTC. If it's like the Nexus phones, expect a very similar HTC branded flagship within the next few months. http://www.phonearena.com/news/Confirmed-Google-Pixel-and-Pixel-XL-are-manufactured-by-HTC_id86174 Quote Jeff Gordon, Senior Global Online Communications Manager at HTC, confirmed to us via e-mail that "HTC is Google’s manufacturing partner for the Pixel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 5, 2016 From your link, Quote HTC is to Google what Foxconn is to Apple (as you may know, Foxconn is building Apple's iPhones): Google and Apple design and oversee everything, while HTC and Foxconn are the ones that actually deal with the manufacturing process. So in essence, Google are following the Apple model with these new phones. Back to the main point is that these high end phones are the ones with the big profit margins. If google like Apple and Like Samsung with their expensive phones sell even a decent amount, the profits will be high. They will also be taking market share from Apple, which is to their advantage in two respects. Having designed and built (by proxy, yes) these new phones they will definitely "care" how many they sell. I see it as a move into new territory for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 5, 2016 Administrator Share Posted October 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, blandy said: From your link, So in essence, Google are following the Apple model with these new phones. Back to the main point is that these high end phones are the ones with the big profit margins. If google like Apple and Like Samsung with their expensive phones sell even a decent amount, the profits will be high. They will also be taking market share from Apple, which is to their advantage in two respects. Having designed and built (by proxy, yes) these new phones they will definitely "care" how many they sell. I see it as a move into new territory for them. HTC is not Foxconn. They are an extant player in the smartphone market. The Pixel strategy appears identical to the Nexus strategy. It's a re-branding operation in advance of the Andromeda release. But we'll see. Over the next few months I predict we'll see: A new HTC flagship almost identical to the Pixel A new thread on VT for Andromeda A range of Pixel tablets which are Andromeda ready A range of browser based devices running Andromeda All with the aim of selling more Google Apps (sorry G Suite; also being re-branded) licences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 The main thing that annoys me is Pixel only functions. The Nexus was a reference device. It provided "stock" android, which OEMs could ship on their devices on its own, or add their own skins to. For the first time, Google are adding software which they will not allow OEMs to include on their devices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 5, 2016 Administrator Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: The main thing that annoys me is Pixel only functions. The Nexus was a reference device. It provided "stock" android, which OEMs could ship on their devices on its own, or add their own skins to. For the first time, Google are adding software which they will not allow OEMs to include on their devices. They did the same with the last two Nexus handsets though eg Project Fi. It might be that the unavailable stuff will need to wait for Andromeda which I think they were hoping would be ready by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Ah I forgot about Fi, it never rolled out in the UK did it? I'd be surprised if they roll out the Pixel launcher and Google Assistant at any point, unless their new experiment fails, they seem to be trying to position themselves as a legitimate provider of flagship phones. They aren't even giving it to Nexus 5x/6P owners right now, which is pretty disappointing. Google's own devices have gone from getting all updates immediately, months ahead of OEMs to all updates, apart from the ones they think they can use to sell the next generation of devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I think the Pixel phones will do well as there will be a lot of people prepared to pay the premium for the first true Google phone. The phone where they have had full control of the hardware for the first time. The Nexus phones, correct me if i'm wrong, were more of a partnership between Google providing their ideal software experience and a manufacturer tweaking existing hardware to accommodate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 5, 2016 Administrator Share Posted October 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, Xela said: I think the Pixel phones will do well as there will be a lot of people prepared to pay the premium for the first true Google phone. The phone where they have had full control of the hardware for the first time. The Nexus phones, correct me if i'm wrong, were more of a partnership between Google providing their ideal software experience and a manufacturer tweaking existing hardware to accommodate. I think the only difference is in the marketing. But that's important to some. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Google providing the ideal software experience and a manufacturer tweaking the hardware is exactly what this is. Hence the massive **** chin. It's basically a recycled HTC A9 shell without a button or speaker on the bottom. Edited October 5, 2016 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 As I understand it, previous Nexus phones were just offshoots of mainstream models that a manufacturer was going to release anyway. Google had very little input into the design but the hardware had to have redistributable drivers and firmware so the image could be downloaded and rebuilt by developers. The OEM versions generally showed up with slightly better components in a few places as newer drivers could be used. This time, Google have used their own in house hardware design team and have designed the hardware from the ground up and are just utilising HTC as the manufacturer in the same way apple use foxconn. I think the fact HTC also make devices is inconsequential. I do think Google have been pretty naive with these devices. They're premium Google devices for a non-existant market. I don't think they'll sell many. But I don't think they necessarily need to. If they did want to make a decent amount they would be priced accordingly. At this price it should be pretty obvious they'll sell as well as the Chromebook pixel and the pixel c. Shame that we'll never see the likes of a nexus 5 release again. Great package at a cost price. I don't think many manufacturers or carriers were happy with Google for that one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 5, 2016 Administrator Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, darrenm said: This time, Google have used their own in house hardware design team and have designed the hardware from the ground up and are just utilising HTC as the manufacturer in the same way apple use foxconn. I think the fact HTC also make devices is inconsequential. How do you know this? The people I deal with from Google can't find any evidence of it other than the marketing stuff. (Although that's not necessarily a surprise. They don't work in devices.) Do you have contacts somewhere? I don't understand why the huge "chin" (I like that word) if they designed it from scratch. Especially when it's got no buttons on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) The bottom reminds me of a certain Warcraft character. Edited October 5, 2016 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Apparently Google have ordered 1 million units (500,000 of each model). To put that into some kind of perspective that order would make up 10% of HTCs production this year. Spending an evening on social media it appears that peoples main gripe is split into 2 parts. Firstly price which puts it firmly in the Apple & Samsung territory and secondly the fact that the pixel launcher and assistant apps will not be seen on any other handsets. Indeed 7.1 will only be appearing on Nexus phones as a developer preview at some point before the end of the year which is major shift in the way google has operated in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 16 hours ago, limpid said: How do you know this? The people I deal with from Google can't find any evidence of it other than the marketing stuff. (Although that's not necessarily a surprise. They don't work in devices.) Do you have contacts somewhere? I don't understand why the huge "chin" (I like that word) if they designed it from scratch. Especially when it's got no buttons on it. Only from what I saw on the keynote. They brought that hardware lead guy out who seemed to be making out it was a change for them to be doing it this way now. May be all fluff I know. Nah, no contacts in Google. Once I didn't get the job they severed all ties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 6, 2016 Administrator Share Posted October 6, 2016 5 minutes ago, darrenm said: Only from what I saw on the keynote. They brought that hardware lead guy out who seemed to be making out it was a change for them to be doing it this way now. May be all fluff I know. Nah, no contacts in Google. Once I didn't get the job they severed all ties Keep turning them down, then they talk to you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Google have created a problem by releasing the Pixel in the slot normally reserved for a Nexus. Yes they changed the name to Pixel but I suppose many people that was just a marketing move. Now I agree its not the prettiest phone around from the pictures and the price is very much in the top end of the market which again hasnt gone down well. Reading on XDA the real kicker for many is that the Pixel launcher and Assistant appear to be exclusive to the new handset which Nexus owners have assumed would come to the Nexus with the 7.1 update. It appears that for the first time ever Nexus owners will have to wait for 7.1 to be made available to them and that might not be until 2017 (unless the developer preview drops before then). You wont be suprised to hear that this hasnt gone down to well with people who have bought Nexus phones who had bought Nexus phones believing that Google would be ensuring that the Nexus line would be running on the latest version of android as soon as it was available as they have done for the last how many years. Google are quite entitled to release a new phone with features which are only available on that line of phones but i am not sure they made it clear enough that this is what they were doing and having the announcement in the slot normally associated with the Nexus reveal probably made it worse. Google arent the best at media relations are they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) On top of the already established precedent set for a Google branded device having delayed updates once a new phone comes out (just ask Nexus 6 owners), it's going to really suck paying the same price as an iPhone, then being abandoned in two years, while your friend's iPhone 7 gets software support for 4-5 years. Edited October 6, 2016 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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