MON's "Not sure what the fans want" comment

[alienvillan]

Massive split here. It seems all those in the CL camp are pointing at how it did Pompey no good, whereas us FAC lot are saying what did the CL do for Everton?

There seems to be common agreement that we can't have them both? Or at least that we shouldn't.

I wonder what would happen if we won the FA Cup and finished 4th, ie worst case scenario? Portsmouth-Everton fate combined?

[danceoftheshamen]

Massive split here. It seems all those in the CL camp are pointing at how it did Pompey no good, whereas us FAC lot are saying what did the CL do for Everton?

There seems to be common agreement that we can't have them both? Or at least that we shouldn't.

I wonder what would happen if we won the FA Cup and finished 4th, ie worst case scenario? Portsmouth-Everton fate combined?

I think that is actually quite nice that as a whole we are not EXPECTING both!! Bet it would be somewhat different with many other fans especially those with top4itis.

The poll is coming along nicely with exactly 100 votes cast so far there is literally nothing in it!! JUST 1 vote separating the FA cup/4th place options!!

Indeed could we be any more split on this

NO WONDER MARTIN O'NEILL COULD'NT GET A READ ON THIS!!

For me though the important thing is that although we would all love to win the FA cup or finish 4th, & ok in our wildest dreams get both, our expectations also in my humble opinion are actually very realistic.

On the 4th place thing, which is what i personally feel COULD, long term, be of most overall benefit to Aston Villa FC, i would say that although that on it's own could not really be classed as "winning" something in the sense that the FA cup would be, but it would "open more doorways". Basically it would put us in one of the top 4 positions on the starting grid. Not guaranteeing "world stars" but certainly a higher calibre of player than we have been able to attract thus far?

For me getting 4th is "grasping hold of the bottom of the ladder which takes you to the top of the tree" so to speak. Yes you could still fall off but if you don't grab it you will NEVER reach the top.

Also there is some urgency involved in doing it THIS season if at all possible as of course it may be much much harder next season with Man city having more chance to throw their billions about & who knows which other club will be taken over by some Trillionaire anytime soon!! So for me to get it this year would be MASSIVE!!

[alienvillan]

Massive split here. It seems all those in the CL camp are pointing at how it did Pompey no good, whereas us FAC lot are saying what did the CL do for Everton?

There seems to be common agreement that we can't have them both? Or at least that we shouldn't.

I wonder what would happen if we won the FA Cup and finished 4th, ie worst case scenario? Portsmouth-Everton fate combined?

I think that is actually quite nice that as a whole we are not EXPECTING both!! Bet it would be somewhat different with many other fans especially those with top4itis.

The poll is coming along nicely with exactly 100 votes cast so far there is literally nothing in it!! JUST 1 vote separating the FA cup/4th place options!!

Indeed could we be any more split on this

NO WONDER MARTIN O'NEILL COULD'NT GET A READ ON THIS!!

For me though the important thing is that although we would all love to win the FA cup or finish 4th, & ok in our wildest dreams get both, our expectations also in my humble opinion are actually very realistic.

On the 4th place thing, which is what i personally feel COULD, long term, be of most overall benefit to Aston Villa FC, i would say that although that on it's own could not really be classed as "winning" something in the sense that the FA cup would be, but it would "open more doorways". Basically it would put us in one of the top 4 positions on the starting grid. Not guaranteeing "world stars" but certainly a higher calibre of player than we have been able to attract thus far?

For me getting 4th is "grasping hold of the bottom of the ladder which takes you to the top of the tree" so to speak. Yes you could still fall off but if you don't grab it you will NEVER reach the top.

Also there is some urgency involved in doing it THIS season if at all possible as of course it may be much much harder next season with Man city having more chance to throw their billions about & who knows which other club will be taken over by some Trillionaire anytime soon!! So for me to get it this year would be MASSIVE!!

I can't disagree, no matter how hard I try.

[SidSidSidSid]

Hello VT, first-time poster, been reading the forum for a while now. Enjoyed this thread, thought I'd vote. 51-49 for a top 4 finish now! GO ON THE TOP FOUR FINISH!

Been going the Villa since the late '70's now and I've always yearned for an F.A.Cup, we all do. Rather win another league title though and, dare I say it, another Euro Champs title. We need to be at the Big Boys' table before we even think about any of that though, so CL and all it entails is what we NEED most, to my mind.

I think it'll be harder to do this next season. Things can pass you by so quickly in football, Villa fans know this better than anyone.

I think we need the momentum and the head start, if ya like, over our numerous rivals.

Be SO GOOD if we did do both though, wouldn't it!?

[bannedfromHandV]

The trouble for me is if we finished fourth I would not be confident of progressing into the actual Champs Lge proper, they've made it particularly tough now I believe in the qualifying matches and it's likely that you'll come up against someone of comparative quality.

[Dante_Lockhart]

Not sure what the fans want

I'll tell ya what i want.

-----------------Friedel-----------------

Onuoha--Cuellar-----Dunne-Warnock

----------------Obi Mikel----------------

Young--------------------------Downing

---------Milner---------DeFour---------

-----------------Carew------------------

Bench: Guzan, Collins, Young, Petrov, Albrighton, Gabby, Delfouneso

[alienvillan]

The trouble for me is if we finished fourth I would not be confident of progressing into the actual Champs Lge proper, they've made it particularly tough now I believe in the qualifying matches and it's likely that you'll come up against someone of comparative quality.

You don't know until you try. And if you are afraid of trying you'll never get there.

[Pelle]

To win the F.A.-cup would be great. One thing I haven't seen us do and I can't get the memory of 2000 out of my head. The disappointment. BUT. The thing I fear if we miss out on 4th this season it'll be harder next season to get there then. And it might be very hard for us to keep most of our stars which take us a step back again. The F.A. cup is a great competition but it doesn't give you money and players from outside England will not look at it as they will look at the teams going to at least qualify for the CL. That's why 4th edges it for me. And IIRC the rules were changed last season so 1-3 gets an automatic place in the group stages and 4th will get one qualifying game but a hard one against another 3rd or 4th from the otehr top leagues. I'm quite sure that 3rd gets straight to the group stages.

Anyway, imagine if we could do both. We'd not only be in the CL but also being winners and having beaten Chelsea in the semi-final. That would send some signals. But maybe it's best we don't get greedy. We very well might lose out on both.

And as someone said, if we can't agree on what would be the best, how could MON ever know what we want? More importantly he shouldn't care too much.

[brummybloke]

We're gonna win the FA cup and finish 4th

Oh and Martin if you're not sure what the fans want let me tell you what this fan wants

I want us to win football games

this

winning games is everything

[Chindie]

Couldn't make the call myself.

I'd love to see us win a trophy again. But sadly the FA Cup doesn't have the worth it used to, seemingly. But a trophy is a trophy.

4th is something that doesn't get remembered, isn't etched onto anything meaningful for all of time, and also doesn't guarentee us CL football, we could easily do an Everton. But it gives us that opportunity that could kick us on in incredible fashion

We've the best chance we'll have in years to do both. Sadly I don't think we'll do either.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Don't get the phrase, could do an Everton?

Everton: Martyn, Hibbert, Yobo, Weir, Pistone (McFadden 80), Cahill, Arteta, Neville, Davies, Kilbane (Ferguson 62), Beattie (Bent 63).

Are people comparing that team to:

Villa: Friedel, Cuellar, Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Petrov, Downing, Young, Milner, Carew, Agbonlahor.

Which could be even better by the time a champions league match is played.

[cat]

I'm a short term goals person - every game matters. Winning breeds confidence, confidence breeds wins. You play every game to win it. Goes without saying that long term goals are to win everything. Maybe I'm supporting the wrong term - have some ambition! Jeez...

[Chindie]

Regardless of the difference in class between that Everton side and our's now, it still doesn't make a difference to the idea that if we finish 4th, we could well go out and never qualify for the CL proper.

That's what 'doing an Everton' is meaning. And I think it's a pretty valid thing to say.

[o'lbs]

the fa cup is only another 2 games max so there's no reason why we can't still achieve both.

[Hanky]

Don't get the phrase, could do an Everton?

It doesn't take into account how good the teams are, it means we could go in and then be knocked out before the group stages.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Regardless of the difference in class between that Everton side and our's now, it still doesn't make a difference to the idea that if we finish 4th, we could well go out and never qualify for the CL proper.

That's what 'doing an Everton' is meaning. And I think it's a pretty valid thing to say.

Hmmm. Yeah but it's pointless just like saying we'll go into administration if we win the Fa Cup because Pompey did.

[Chindie]

Regardless of the difference in class between that Everton side and our's now, it still doesn't make a difference to the idea that if we finish 4th, we could well go out and never qualify for the CL proper.

That's what 'doing an Everton' is meaning. And I think it's a pretty valid thing to say.

Hmmm. Yeah but it's pointless just like saying we'll go into administration if we win the Fa Cup because Pompey did.

Of course it isn't.

It's an argument to remind people that 4th guarentees nothing. If you win the FA Cup, you've won it. If you get 4th, you've just bought a ticket for a raffle.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Regardless of the difference in class between that Everton side and our's now, it still doesn't make a difference to the idea that if we finish 4th, we could well go out and never qualify for the CL proper.

That's what 'doing an Everton' is meaning. And I think it's a pretty valid thing to say.

Hmmm. Yeah but it's pointless just like saying we'll go into administration if we win the Fa Cup because Pompey did.

Of course it isn't.

It's an argument to remind people that 4th guarentees nothing. If you win the FA Cup, you've won it. If you get 4th, you've just bought a ticket for a raffle.

An important raffle.

As you once said, (I think) the thing you want to see Villa win most is the league. Winning the Fa Cup doesn't give Villa the platform they need to achieve that, 4th does. It might only be a small chance that we take 4th and then are able to build on it in a successful manner and become an elite club but a small chance is better than no chance.

[Hanky]

As you once said, (I think) the thing you want to see Villa win most is the league. Winning the Fa Cup doesn't give Villa the platform they need to achieve that, 4th does. It might only be a small chance that we take 4th and then are able to build on it in a successful manner and become an elite club but a small chance is better than no chance.

If we are talking about winning the league then both do. If nothing else the FA Cup gives a club confidence to go on and win something else and people will take notice (despite it losing appeal over the last few years).

[Chindie]

An important raffle.

As you once said, (I think) the thing you want to see Villa win most is the league. Winning the Fa Cup doesn't give Villa the platform they need to achieve that, 4th does. It might only be a small chance that we take 4th and then are able to build on it in a successful manner and become an elite club but a small chance is better than no chance.

I did say that that is the top of the list of things I want us to win. And being a regular CL team will help us do that undoubtedly, the important word there being 'regular'. It's all well and good us finishing 4th once, if we can't repeat that then it's pointless. I don't doubt that once we do make the CL proper we'll stay there and make the most of the opportunity, but it isn't guarenteed that 4th this season leads to brilliance for the seasons to come.

4th guarentees you nothing.

And do not get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic to get 4th (as sad as that is for the game). I just can't make a decision which I would prefer, 4th or the Fa Cup. Potentially, 4th brings great benefits, with the added difficult to maintain those benefits.

The FA Cup brings smaller gains but a trophy is something engraved on history. And we've not lifted one for so long.

Ideally, lets get both. It's not out of the question (though I'd not put money on us doing it...). But I couldn't decide which in a one or the other scenerio, so laid out what I thought on both.