The "Witton Lane" Boxing Chat Thread

[mikeyp102]

On 20/11/2018 at 12:46, Demitri_C said:

Hearn saying a "wildcard" might be next for Joshua. Who does everyone  think? I am a feeling it might be andre ward. That would make some serious money.

Usyk?

[Demitri_C]

8 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

Usyk?

Be too soon for usyk I would say. I think usyk should be aiming for someone like parker or takam to begin with before he goes for any of the big boys 

[Dr_Pangloss]

21 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Was that pre or post prison? Tyson wpuld have murdered him.

Obviously post, it was around 2002

[Dr_Pangloss]

So Kal Yafai requires a robbery to get past a poor opponent who is basically a Mexican club fighter. Yafai is just domestic level and a paper champion, and what a surprise that there's suspect scoring for an Eddie Hearn fighter on an Eddie Hearn promotion, such a recurring theme isn't it. 

Bivol gets the job done against an old Jean Pascal. He wasn't especially impressive and for the second fight in a row against a veteran fighter. I can't figure Bivol out, was extremely good against Sullivan Barrera but has not impressed recently, it could be that he fights to the level of his opponent... I'd imagine he will be in the mix for the winner of Kovalev vs Alvarez 2.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Dr_Pangloss

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

So Kal Yafai requires a robbery to get past a poor opponent who is basically a Mexican club fighter. Yafai is just domestic level and a paper champion, and what a surprise that there's suspect scoring for an Eddie Hearn fighter on an Eddie Hearn promotion, such a recurring theme isn't it. 

Bivol gets the job done against an old Jean Pascal. He wasn't especially impressive and for the second fight in a row against a veteran fighter. I can't figure Bivol out, was extremely good against Sullivan Barrera but has not impressed recently, it could be that he fights to the level of his opponent... I'd imagine he will be in the mix for the winner of Kovalev vs Alvarez 2.

Such a dreadful card yesterday

[Johnnyp]

Fury-wilder fight week should be fun

[Demitri_C]

13 hours ago, Johnnyp said:

Fury-wilder fight week should be fun

I think fury will outbox him for most of it then wilder will catch him and game over. I reckon 7th round ko.

If it went to 12 rounds no chance wilder wins as he is a useless boxer. If fury had any form of power in his punches he would win easy but for a heavyweight he doesn't hit hard. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Demitri_C

[Dr_Pangloss]

Fury is hardly the master boxer he makes out. He has great feet and a very good jab, but that's it, no right hand, an OK left hook, decent at best defence. He's very unpredictable with his movements and that puts opponents off. I think Fury is best pitted against highly structured fighters, such as Klitschko, in fact I'd actually pick him to beat Joshua based on the fact that Joshua is extremely structured and robotic, the caveat being that Joshua can flip the switch and just go all out and unload on his opponents, and IMO he'd have to do that to dig himself out of a hole against Fury.

Wilder's unorthodox angles, speed and unpredictability IMO will make it harder for Fury to do his usual stuff. I can imagine him finding a home for that right hand pretty early.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Dr_Pangloss

[Johnnyp]

40 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Fury is hardly the master boxer he makes out. He has great feet and a very good jab, but that's it, no right hand, an OK left hook, decent at best defence. He's very unpredictable with his movements and that puts opponents off. I think Fury is best pitted against highly structured fighters, such as Klitschko, in fact I'd actually pick him to beat Joshua based on the fact that Joshua is extremely structured and robotic, the caveat being that Joshua can flip the switch and just go all out and unload on his opponents, and IMO he'd have to do that to dig himself out of a hole against Fury.

Wilder's unorthodox angles, speed and unpredictability IMO will make it harder for Fury to do his usual stuff. I can imagine him finding a home for that right hand pretty early.

Don't discount the fact that wilder will find Fury's size alone a bit difficult. He's fought and beat relatively small men like Szpilka, Stiverne and Ortiz. He's never had to punch up to a target before. That's not easy if you aren't used to doing that. "Structured fighter " is a bit unfair. Klitschko was pissing over that division until Fury beat him. Great fight ? No. Great game plan ? Absolutely.  Klitschko has dynamite in that right hand. Fury disarmed him. Couldn't throw it once. And then you hear all the nonsense from people after the fight that it was a mental block and wlad couldn't pull the trigger that night . Rubbish. He let the right go plenty against a bigger puncher in Joshua so....Fury never let him get set to plant his feet to throw a power shot. Kept the jab in his face. Moved very well. He's made no secret of the fact that when he sees wilder about to load up sat he'll disrupt him. Fury will win this. 100%. 

[Demitri_C]

15 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Don't discount the fact that wilder will find Fury's size alone a bit difficult. He's fought and beat relatively small men like Szpilka, Stiverne and Ortiz. He's never had to punch up to a target before. That's not easy if you aren't used to doing that. "Structured fighter " is a bit unfair. Klitschko was pissing over that division until Fury beat him. Great fight ? No. Great game plan ? Absolutely.  Klitschko has dynamite in that right hand. Fury disarmed him. Couldn't throw it once. And then you hear all the nonsense from people after the fight that it was a mental block and wlad couldn't pull the trigger that night . Rubbish. He let the right go plenty against a bigger puncher in Joshua so....Fury never let him get set to plant his feet to throw a power shot. Kept the jab in his face. Moved very well. He's made no secret of the fact that when he sees wilder about to load up sat he'll disrupt him. Fury will win this. 100%. 

That is a good point about wilder fighting small men. He has never been in a ring with a fury or a Joshua. In fact even a dilian whyte. I rate whyte more than Ortiz and Ortiz caused wilder all kinds of problems.

I still don't think they has anything that will hurt wilder in terms of power. He will have to simply out box him that's his only chance. I dont see how he will be able to stop those long stretchy arms for 12 rounds though.

 

[LakotaDakota]

15 hours ago, Johnnyp said:

Fury-wilder fight week should be fun

Don't think it will be too bad. Fury hasn't got most of his entourage with him and really don't think he would do anything that could jeopardise any future trips to the states. Ticket sales aren't great and i doubt it will do much on PPV but everyone knows that these 2 seem to get on reasonably well so not much point in doing anything daft as it will not change anything other than possible future earnings being affected adversely.

Still torn on the fight, Head says Wilder KO in 5-7 but head also says Fury on points.

Fury isn't a big hitter but i honestly don't think that i have ever seen him in such good shape, He even has some muscular definition on his arms rather than the usual bingo wings

[Dr_Pangloss]

39 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Don't discount the fact that wilder will find Fury's size alone a bit difficult. He's fought and beat relatively small men like Szpilka, Stiverne and Ortiz. He's never had to punch up to a target before. That's not easy if you aren't used to doing that. "Structured fighter " is a bit unfair. Klitschko was pissing over that division until Fury beat him. Great fight ? No. Great game plan ? Absolutely.  Klitschko has dynamite in that right hand. Fury disarmed him. Couldn't throw it once. And then you hear all the nonsense from people after the fight that it was a mental block and wlad couldn't pull the trigger that night . Rubbish. He let the right go plenty against a bigger puncher in Joshua so....Fury never let him get set to plant his feet to throw a power shot. Kept the jab in his face. Moved very well. He's made no secret of the fact that when he sees wilder about to load up sat he'll disrupt him. Fury will win this. 100%. 

Not really, perhaps you misunderstand. Structured fighters do the boxing 101 stuff extremely well but struggle to deviate from it. Klitschko builds everything off the jab, without that he struggles to dominate fights, he has a rhythm and when he gets into it he's extremely good, not withstanding that he was in his very late 30s to early 40s when he fought both Fury and Joshua (a younger Klitschko would have taken Joshua out). 

You basically make my own case, Fury 'disarmed' him precisely because his footwork and jab stopped him from establishing his usual rhythm. He couldn't get his own jab working because he had a better one coming back at him but also because Fury had the distance mastered (due to his feet). As a result, Wlad simply could not find another gear, could not react and adapt to what he had in front of him. Joshua does not have this sort jab, footwork or mastery of distance, that's why Wlad was able to land the jab very effectively and then use that to set up most of his offence. The nice extra wrinkle he brought to the table was the feinted jab followed by the right hand (the shot that dropped Joshua) but that's because Joshua was right there to take it, Fury on the other hand was never in effective range for that shot, whenever Wlad looked for it he either had a jab in his face or Fury would step to the side and make Wlad reset his feet.

You can't tell me that Wlad was anything other than a highly structured fighter, he built everything off the basics, he mastered the basics, but very rarely ever showed an ability to adapt to an opponent showing him something different. Fury on that night was improv. Jazz.

[Johnnyp]

7 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Not really, perhaps you misunderstand. Structured fighters do the boxing 101 stuff extremely well but struggle to deviate from it. Klitschko builds everything off the jab, without that he struggles to dominate fights, he has a rhythm and when he gets into it he's extremely good, not withstanding that he was in his very late 30s to early 40s when he fought both Fury and Joshua (a younger Klitschko would have taken Joshua out). 

You basically make my own case, Fury 'disarmed' him precisely because his footwork and jab stopped him from establishing his usual rhythm. He couldn't get his own jab working because he had a better one coming back at him but also because Fury had the distance mastered (due to his feet). As a result, Wlad simply could not find another gear, could not react and adapt to what he had in front of him. Joshua does not have this sort jab, footwork or mastery of distance, that's why Wlad was able to land the jab very effectively and then use that to set up most of his offence. The nice extra wrinkle he brought to the table was the feinted jab followed by the right hand (the shot that dropped Joshua) but that's because Joshua was right there to take it, Fury on the other hand was never in effective range for that shot, whenever Wlad looked for it he either had a jab in his face or Fury would step to the side and make Wlad reset his feet.

You can't tell me that Wlad was anything other than a highly structured fighter, he built everything off the basics, he mastered the basics, but very rarely ever showed an ability to adapt to an opponent showing him something different. Fury on that night was improv. Jazz.

Probably in his last few fights with steward he brought the left hook to his game. Never had one for years. I do apologise, i took the structured fighter term as derogatory..my bad.  Wlad was world class in my book. I think you'll see a scenario where fury could tie him up in knots Saturday night on route to a points win. Remember 2 of Fury's hardest fights, as billed by the media going in, were the first chisora fight. Beat him easily. And klitschko. Comfortable too. Has anybody ever really put it on Fury, really ? John McDermott the closest to my mind but fury was a state back then, barely trained.

[LakotaDakota]

Hard to tell how good/bad any of them are really. Wilder has pretty much knocked out 40 random pub fighters and Furys record isn't much better if you take out Wlad & Chisora (the chisora fight was 7 1/2 years ago now too so not sure you can read that much into it) and he has only had 7 fights since 2012, including the 2 earlier in the year

[Dr_Pangloss]

14 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Probably in his last few fights with steward he brought the left hook to his game. Never had one for years. I do apologise, i took the structured fighter term as derogatory..my bad.  Wlad was world class in my book. I think you'll see a scenario where fury could tie him up in knots Saturday night on route to a points win. Remember 2 of Fury's hardest fights, as billed by the media going in, were the first chisora fight. Beat him easily. And klitschko. Comfortable too. Has anybody ever really put it on Fury, really ? John McDermott the closest to my mind but fury was a state back then, barely trained.

Yes he did get the left hook, but still doesn't make him less structured, it was still about jab and distance for him and getting in that comfort zone. Wlad was an excellent boxer (especially under Steward) but no where near as good as brother and a comfort zone kind of a guy.

Fury well, Cunningham put it on him and dropped him heavily and so did Neven Pajkic. Wilder could be the biggest oversight I've ever made, I certainly don't think he's a great boxer at all, but I see his right hand detonating on Fury's jaw, Fury IMO will keep the distance and that will be his undoing, he will IMO misjudge the range and his chin is weak. He is an A+ level talker and looks in great shape but all those years off (his 'tune ups' were a joke) and the way he abused his body is an enormous red flag in terms of how his footspeed and reflexes will be. I'm not convinced by him.

Now if he elects to fight on the inside then that will be a better strategy, Fury can fight well on the inside (never done it against a 'top' opponent though) and as long as he doesn't get caught on the way in (which is the danger) could could see him rag-dolling Wilder. Wilder is tall, but very light for a heavyweight, Fury is a lot 'bigger' and stronger.  

[sheepyvillian]

On 25/11/2018 at 15:27, Dr_Pangloss said:

So Kal Yafai requires a robbery to get past a poor opponent who is basically a Mexican club fighter. Yafai is just domestic level and a paper champion, and what a surprise that there's suspect scoring for an Eddie Hearn fighter on an Eddie Hearn promotion, such a recurring theme isn't it. 

Bivol gets the job done against an old Jean Pascal. He wasn't especially impressive and for the second fight in a row against a veteran fighter. I can't figure Bivol out, was extremely good against Sullivan Barrera but has not impressed recently, it could be that he fights to the level of his opponent... I'd imagine he will be in the mix for the winner of Kovalev vs Alvarez 2.

I've always been mindful of the way young Selby dealt with him in the qualifications for that Olympic spot . I think he's done well in achieving what he has. He will always be in the History books of boxing as Birmingham's first World champion, so credit where it's due. 

[sheepyvillian]

On 15/11/2018 at 22:44, Johnnyp said:

Garcia though is elite and arguably the best opponent in terms of pure talent ( weight aside) that Spence will have faced. I agree with you though that Spence will win but won't be lopsided.

I really don't see the logic in this fight. Kell Brook made the same mistake. And with day before weigh - in's it's even more of a disadvantage.  By the time they get in the ring, Spence will look like a giant in comparison. 

The more logical fight for Garcia would have been Loma.

[Demitri_C]

If fury starts using his size and power to his advantage and bullies wilder about then he gives himself a opportunity  as @Dr_Pangloss says wilder is veey lightweight.  He won't be able to shove fury around. The swinging right hook is all he has. 

[Brumstopdogs]

Can't see anything other than Fury getting KO'd!

 

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

If fury starts using his size and power to his advantage and bullies wilder about then he gives himself a opportunity  as @Dr_Pangloss says wilder is veey lightweight.  He won't be able to shove fury around. The swinging right hook is all he has. 

Sometimes that's all you need.