Premier League Spurs - Arry's gone but we still dislike them...

[joey55]

This is becoming ridiculous. Dawson was one of the most criticised players in the league until last season. It was totaly unfair. He had a really poor season during 2007/8, but the following year was back on form, but by then his reputation was in tatters and he was still constantly ridiculed. last season he was excellent and finally got praised for his perfomances, but much of the was done grudgingly and only after many good games. Yet I'm now reading he's over rated and recieves London bias. He was under rated hugely for 2 years. He's harldy over rated now. It's not as if anyone thinks he's Ferdinand and Vidic standard. He is just a good defender and has made a lot of people eat humble pie and they don't like it.

The Jagielka argument isn't right as the reason he hasn't been spoken of so much lately is because he was injured for much of last season. Prior to that he was being praised from all quaters. As was Lescott. Dawson has earned his praise. He played very well consistently last season. I don't expect Villa fans to watch our games, but more of you proabbly watched the big games at the end of last season and obviously our games against you. Surely Dawsons performances against Cheslea, City, Arsenal and the twice we played you must have been seen by a number of you. If this is the case, surely you can have to accept the guy isn't anywhere near as shit as had been made out and was fully deserving of the plaudits he has recieved.

Put simply he played very well and got praised for it and won international recogntion. This is hard for some in this thread to accept as they were ridiculously critical of Dawson prior to him coming back into our team in November. Rather than hold their hands up and say they maybe got it wrong wth Dawson, it is easier to suggest he is being over rated. Yet in reality I don't see the media of fans going crazy over Michael Dawson. By and large they've just come to accept he's a good defender and not the pile of shit he was made out to be. He isn't now over rated, it's just in the past he was under rated. These are things that were said about him in this thread prior to his first Prem start last season, that show how under rated he was around here:

"Please play Michael Dawson" (said the day before we played you and he scored)

"Dawson is shocking"

"Dawson is a poor centre half."

"hes **** terrible."

[HJ]

"Please play Michael Dawson" (said the day before we played you and he scored)

I'm with you, very few outfield players have the kind of hand control he does.

[legov]

This is becoming ridiculous. Dawson was one of the most criticised players in the league until last season. It was totaly unfair. He had a really poor season during 2007/8, but the following year was back on form, but by then his reputation was in tatters and he was still constantly ridiculed. last season he was excellent and finally got praised for his perfomances, but much of the was done grudgingly and only after many good games. Yet I'm now reading he's over rated and recieves London bias. He was under rated hugely for 2 years. He's harldy over rated now. It's not as if anyone thinks he's Ferdinand and Vidic standard. He is just a good defender and has made a lot of people eat humble pie and they don't like it.

The Jagielka argument isn't right as the reason he hasn't been spoken of so much lately is because he was injured for much of last season. Prior to that he was being praised from all quaters. As was Lescott. Dawson has earned his praise. He played very well consistently last season. I don't expect Villa fans to watch our games, but more of you proabbly watched the big games at the end of last season and obviously our games against you. Surely Dawsons performances against Cheslea, City, Arsenal and the twice we played you must have been seen by a number of you. If this is the case, surely you can have to accept the guy isn't anywhere near as shit as had been made out and was fully deserving of the plaudits he has recieved.

Put simply he played very well and got praised for it and won international recogntion. This is hard for some in this thread to accept as they were ridiculously critical of Dawson prior to him coming back into our team in November. Rather than hold their hands up and say they maybe got it wrong wth Dawson, it is easier to suggest he is being over rated. Yet in reality I don't see the media of fans going crazy over Michael Dawson. By and large they've just come to accept he's a good defender and not the pile of shit he was made out to be. He isn't now over rated, it's just in the past he was under rated. These are things that were said about him in this thread prior to his first Prem start last season, that show how under rated he was around here:

"Please play Michael Dawson" (said the day before we played you and he scored)

"Dawson is shocking"

"Dawson is a poor centre half."

"hes **** terrible."

This.

Credit to Joey for explaining his opinion clearly without resorting to angry verbal attacks.

[Hanky]

Dawson has improved no end to a decent centre half (IMO) at the moment.

On a side note Van der Vaart came across very arrogant on that SSN interview.

[Oaks]

This is becoming ridiculous. Dawson was one of the most criticised players in the league until last season. It was totaly unfair. He had a really poor season during 2007/8, but the following year was back on form, but by then his reputation was in tatters and he was still constantly ridiculed. last season he was excellent and finally got praised for his perfomances, but much of the was done grudgingly and only after many good games. Yet I'm now reading he's over rated and recieves London bias. He was under rated hugely for 2 years. He's harldy over rated now. It's not as if anyone thinks he's Ferdinand and Vidic standard. He is just a good defender and has made a lot of people eat humble pie and they don't like it.

The Jagielka argument isn't right as the reason he hasn't been spoken of so much lately is because he was injured for much of last season. Prior to that he was being praised from all quaters. As was Lescott. Dawson has earned his praise. He played very well consistently last season. I don't expect Villa fans to watch our games, but more of you proabbly watched the big games at the end of last season and obviously our games against you. Surely Dawsons performances against Cheslea, City, Arsenal and the twice we played you must have been seen by a number of you. If this is the case, surely you can have to accept the guy isn't anywhere near as shit as had been made out and was fully deserving of the plaudits he has recieved.

Put simply he played very well and got praised for it and won international recogntion. This is hard for some in this thread to accept as they were ridiculously critical of Dawson prior to him coming back into our team in November. Rather than hold their hands up and say they maybe got it wrong wth Dawson, it is easier to suggest he is being over rated. Yet in reality I don't see the media of fans going crazy over Michael Dawson. By and large they've just come to accept he's a good defender and not the pile of shit he was made out to be. He isn't now over rated, it's just in the past he was under rated. These are things that were said about him in this thread prior to his first Prem start last season, that show how under rated he was around here:

"Please play Michael Dawson" (said the day before we played you and he scored)

"Dawson is shocking"

"Dawson is a poor centre half."

"hes **** terrible."

This.

Credit to Joey for explaining his opinion clearly without resorting to angry verbal attacks.

I agree i think he has come on leaps and bounds the last couple of years. I remember 2 years ago a interviewer asked him about an England squad place i pissed myself laughing, but he deserves one now although he has made a couple of **** ups this season. He's better than Upbum and Lescott, but i think Jagielka is another step above him, i really rate him.

[granville]

Fair play joey for arguing your side coherently and respectfully. I do agree to an extent about the comments referring to him as "**** terrible" being over the top but IMO his pace on the turn is nearly non-existent. It seems to be a really overlooked aspect of CBs in our national team. Terry, Upson, Carragher, Dawson etc. can all have excellent games providing the team around them is quick enough to cover them. If not then they get isolated, turned and generally torn apart. This isn't really what I want in an England CB tbh.

It obviously can work but I think it's much easier to find a CB who can hold his own on the run rather than have to fill the rest of the back line with national quality sprinters in order to cover or risk letting opponents have several one on ones every game.

[TrentVilla]

Dawson is a very decent CB and has without question improved a huge amount in the last 12 to 18 months, to argue otherwise is being either disingenuous or to simply show poor judgement in my view. He is a very capable Premier League defender and with the right partner more than capable of what is required to perform on that level, you don't play as many games as he did last season for Spurs without being a decent player.

All that said he has in my view always come up short in one area of his game, he has done since his early days at Forest when I used to watch him and from what I've seen its still a fault in his game. When the ball is in front of him he is great, put it behind him for a striker with pace and he is in trouble.

Granville is totally correct in what he says and correct in his accusation that the same critism can be levelled at Carragher, Upson and Terry. It is true of all these players that they struggle with this aspect of the game and need a certain type of partner to balance them or to cover them if you like.

[BOF]

Dawson is every bit as error-prone as Zat Knight or Titus Bramble. They're all good defenders on their day and they're all capable (or guaranteed) of one howler. I can't count the amount of Spurs games I've watched alongside my Spurs mate and laughed at the bloke. He never fails to amuse. This injury could put him out of the Spurs side and make him 3rd choice behind Gallas now.

[Stevo985]

Dawson is every bit as error-prone as Zat Knight or Titus Bramble. They're all good defenders on their day and they're all capable (or guaranteed) of one howler. I can't count the amount of Spurs games I've watched alongside my Spurs mate and laughed at the bloke. He never fails to amuse. This injury could put him out of the Spurs side and make him 3rd choice behind Gallas now.

That's exactly what I was saying to my friends yesterday (to much agreement, and none of them are villa fans (2 liverpool, 2 Cov, a bloozer and a United fan)).

He's decent. he can hold his own, but he has too many games where he drops clangers.

And your final point agrees with what I said earlier. If (and that's a **** huge "if") all the Spurs CBs were fit, I'd put them in this order:

King, Woodgate, Bassong, Gallas, Dawson, Kaboul.

[TrentVilla]

King, Woodgate, Bassong, Gallas, Dawson, Kaboul.

I'd agree with that.

[carew_villa]

Dawson is good, no doubt about that, but not England standard for me and there are better, more reliable CBs for England. He just seems to get a bit carried away at times.

Eg. When Tottenham played Leeds in the FA Cup at WHL, in the last minute Beckford is going nowhere and Dawson needlessly hauls him down and concedes a last minute penalty which forces Tottenham into a replay.

[Qwpzxjor1]

Dawson is a slightly better Titus Bramble.

Bramble was sometimes quite good. But just had moments of complete madness that proved costly. Dawson is not too dissimilar; can look pretty good for 89 minutes and then just get completely flat footed or concede an unnecessary penalty or free kick.

[GlastonSpur]

I read on here that Delph is apparently much better than Dawson.

I have already explained about that. In the same way that a player like Shaun Maloney is a better player than Carlos Puyol.

You just put words in people's mouths and then use this for your arguments against nobody.

These are your exact words concerning Dawson in comparison the Delph (I have not put them in your mouth): "... a much better talent and much better player like Delph".

Then later, to cover your embarassment, you change it to saying you only meant he was only much better "technically" ... whatever that is supposed to mean for a player who has barely played yet against Prem opposition, whilst Dawson was a rock last season in a side that finished 4th.

Now you follow it by saying that Maloney is better than Puyol, again "technically" I suppose. Well, technical or not, Maloney doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Puyol: your statements become ever more ridiculous.

For Delph to be even considered in comparison to Dawson he first has to become a starting regular in Villa's team, and then he has cement that place through good performances. When he has done both these things, an attempted comparison in terms of player quality may become worthwhile and meaningful ... but right now it's absurd.

[SoccerHQ]

Woodgate won't be coming back imo, King can't play twice in quick succession and Bassong was shown up just as much as Dawson was in the champions league first leg.

I think Gallas was a good signing.

[carew_villa]

I read on here that Delph is apparently much better than Dawson.

I have already explained about that. In the same way that a player like Shaun Maloney is a better player than Carlos Puyol.

You just put words in people's mouths and then use this for your arguments against nobody.

These are your exact words concerning Dawson in comparison the Delph (I have not put them in your mouth): "... a much better talent and much better player like Delph".

Now you follow it by saying that Maloney is better than Puyol, again "technically" I suppose. Well, technical or not, Maloney doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Puyol: your statements become ever more ridiculous.

I don't want to get into a debate about this but Delph is a much better talent and much better player than Dawson in the sense that I'm talking about. For example, Dunne is not the best football player but he's great at defending.

As for Delph, just wait a couple of years, unfortuantely I don't see Delph being at Villa in 3 years time as clubs like Man City will be after him. That's how good he will be. Leeds fans rate Delph above players like Rose and Lennon.

[Brumstopdogs]

Check out Dawson for the second goal. 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX8d1p8MjHo

[Brumstopdogs]

I wonder if the comments about Delph have anything to do with him choosing Villa over Spurs

[chrissmith921]

I read on here that Delph is apparently much better than Dawson.

I have already explained about that. In the same way that a player like Shaun Maloney is a better player than Carlos Puyol.

You just put words in people's mouths and then use this for your arguments against nobody.

These are your exact words concerning Dawson in comparison the Delph (I have not put them in your mouth): "... a much better talent and much better player like Delph".

Now you follow it by saying that Maloney is better than Puyol, again "technically" I suppose. Well, technical or not, Maloney doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Puyol: your statements become ever more ridiculous.

I don't want to get into a debate about this but Delph is a much better talent and much better player than Dawson in the sense that I'm talking about. For example, Dunne is not the best football player but he's great at defending.

As for Delph, just wait a couple of years, unfortuantely I don't see Delph being at Villa in 3 years time as clubs like Man City will be after him. That's how good he will be. Leeds fans rate Delph above players like Rose and Lennon.

GlastonSpur in complaint about players being compared against one another, yet King apparently is the new McGrath.

[MMFy]

Stop ducking the point, Glaston. I do not know of another instance of a Premier League manager ... deliberately swearing at the camera. ...

Then maybe you need to get out more. Here's just one example:

You tell me to 'get out more' then get all anal on me by digging out a quote from8 years ago? Jebus, are you for real?

Sir Alex Ferguson famously said in a 2002 interview that his "greatest challenge" as Manchester United boss was "knocking Liverpool right off their f****** perch"

You might not like this, but I think Fergie is a massive kunt as well.

You've only lost minimal credibility with this ridiculous statement though. Unfortunately it was the last scrap.

[Zatman]

Dawson reminds me a lot of Davies and needs to be handheld by King or Woodgate in most games to look good.

Problem is with them 2 injured a lotI dont think Gallas is capable mentally of minding Dawson