MON stay or go

[granville]

It's not just some of our fans seeing these things, i had so many texts during the game yesterday off fans of other teams along the lines of 'christ you're sh*t', 'you're awful to watch', 'if young and gabby go to the world cup it's a joke' etc etc. I would argue with them but i think they're right.

Well, at least you didn't have to watch the match.

Eh? I was there, we were crap.

Perhaps all the best play happened while you were reading your texts.

Yeah i must have missed all our chances and all that fast, attacking, exciting play that the media seem to think we play. I must miss that every game.

It sounds like you're wasting your time. You might even consider not coming any more...

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

"Instead of this, MON shocked us all with his tactical genius and the substitution of JC for Emile."

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Who set the Agbonlahor goal up sorry?

This was exactly like Blues, Carew got the assist, We win 0-1. Mon got it tactically spot on.

Yesterday, 0-0 70 minutes, Mon brings on Heskey, we get the goal 0-1. Mon's a genius, Sidwell makes a rash tackle in the box, Mon's tactically poor....

[walesavfc]

for those of you who want harry in look at this great guy

[barry'sboots]

"Instead of this, MON shocked us all with his tactical genius and the substitution of JC for Emile."

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Who set the Agbonlahor goal up sorry?

This was exactly like Blues, Carew got the assist, We win 0-1. Mon got it tactically spot on.

Yesterday, 0-0 70 minutes, Mon brings on Heskey, we get the goal 0-1. Mon's a genius, Sidwell makes a rash tackle in the box, Mon's tactically poor....

I am not having a go at Emile, but he has to do something right with all the time he gets on the pitch. What I am criticising is MON's inability to try anything new when things aren't working. It was the same the last 15 games of last season - more of the same when he has options.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

"Instead of this, MON shocked us all with his tactical genius and the substitution of JC for Emile."

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Who set the Agbonlahor goal up sorry?

This was exactly like Blues, Carew got the assist, We win 0-1. Mon got it tactically spot on.

Yesterday, 0-0 70 minutes, Mon brings on Heskey, we get the goal 0-1. Mon's a genius, Sidwell makes a rash tackle in the box, Mon's tactically poor....

I am not having a go at Emile, but he has to do something right with all the time he gets on the pitch. What I am criticising is MON's inability to try anything new when things aren't working. It was the same the last 15 games of last season - more of the same when he has options.

He did do something right, he created the goal and actually won a few flick on's. It weren't working against Wolves, he changed it and it did work, we got the goal. We didn't look like conceding a goal all game, in fact apart from that 4th minute shot, I don't think Friedel had to make a save, we had to try and find a way of winning the game, by scoring a goal, we scored a goal. So Mon got it spot on. Sidwell made a rash challenge in the area, an individual mistake. I don't see how it was Mon's fault against Wolves to be honest.

[commander]

For me, I can take losing, I can take poor player and team performances as long as we attempt to adress what's gone wrong.

This is my annoyance with O'Neill he never makes any chnages. His insistence on ignoring tactics and playing his favourites will eventually cost him his job. He's a great motivator, but an extremely niaive and poor tactician, he seems afriad to make match chnaging substitutions.

Unless he learns to adapt - we will always be a nothing club - there's no point beating Chelski and Liverpool if we lose against piss poor teams like Wigan, Blackburn and draw against rubbish like Wolves. We were lcuky against the noses as well, these teams will finish bottom 5 or 6 in the league and we play into their hands by not playing a midfield spoiler (i.e NRC / Gardner) in midfield.

He's had 3 years and hasn't learned from his mistakes, he appears to be an intelligent man, but in terms of tactics, benches and substitutions and playing players out of position he is inept and frankly absymal. He's a stubborn man, so as he's unlikely to chnage then maybe we'll have to try someone different.

I think in order to break the top we need a tactician, O'Neill has bought in some decent hard-working - if not inspiring - players (some shit as well) but for us to progress we need someone to look at our oponents and play / do whatever we need to do to win.

Mourinho, used to hand each player an A4 booklet to each player informing them of their likely opponents, players habits etc. Do you think this happens at the Villa? I doubt it. We don't chnage when we play different teams, the key is to adpat to circumstances. Big Sam often derided by many people on here, picks teams in order to try to beat, stiffle, take advantage of teh oppositions weaknesses etc. HE took a terrible Bolton team and got them to 6th spending little money. MONs motivational skills are not in question but his team mangement has to be. He is a 'leicester esque' manager good at getting the best out of toss. But I really don't think he's got what it takes to move us on.

So that's why I'd like him replaced. Any sensible discussion/ comments on my thoughts are encouraged

[barry'sboots]

Commander, you are very right IMO.

The only thing I would disagree with is that I think he has put together a squad capable of breaking the top 4, certainly with a small tweak in the next window - Emile out, Huntelaar or Cole in.

I would love to see MON learn from his mistakes and do it but I don't think he can - he didn't manage to after the end of last season.

[TRO]

"Instead of this, MON shocked us all with his tactical genius and the substitution of JC for Emile."

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Who set the Agbonlahor goal up sorry?

This was exactly like Blues, Carew got the assist, We win 0-1. Mon got it tactically spot on.

Yesterday, 0-0 70 minutes, Mon brings on Heskey, we get the goal 0-1. Mon's a genius, Sidwell makes a rash tackle in the box, Mon's tactically poor....

I am not having a go at Emile, but he has to do something right with all the time he gets on the pitch. What I am criticising is MON's inability to try anything new when things aren't working. It was the same the last 15 games of last season - more of the same when he has options.

He did do something right, he created the goal and actually won a few flick on's. It weren't working against Wolves, he changed it and it did work, we got the goal. We didn't look like conceding a goal all game, in fact apart from that 4th minute shot, I don't think Friedel had to make a save, we had to try and find a way of winning the game, by scoring a goal, we scored a goal. So Mon got it spot on. Sidwell made a rash challenge in the area, an individual mistake. I don't see how it was Mon's fault against Wolves to be honest.

Well the incident that lead up to the penalty being concede was an Aerial tussle near the half way line that Heskey was out muscled/controlled and subsequently the ball was played in to our box.

[TRO]

For me, I can take losing, I can take poor player and team performances as long as we attempt to adress what's gone wrong.

This is my annoyance with O'Neill he never makes any chnages. His insistence on ignoring tactics and playing his favourites will eventually cost him his job. He's a great motivator, but an extremely niaive and poor tactician, he seems afriad to make match chnaging substitutions.

Unless he learns to adapt - we will always be a nothing club - there's no point beating Chelski and Liverpool if we lose against piss poor teams like Wigan, Blackburn and draw against rubbish like Wolves. We were lcuky against the noses as well, these teams will finish bottom 5 or 6 in the league and we play into their hands by not playing a midfield spoiler (i.e NRC / Gardner) in midfield.

He's had 3 years and hasn't learned from his mistakes, he appears to be an intelligent man, but in terms of tactics, benches and substitutions and playing players out of position he is inept and frankly absymal. He's a stubborn man, so as he's unlikely to chnage then maybe we'll have to try someone different.

I think in order to break the top we need a tactician, O'Neill has bought in some decent hard-working - if not inspiring - players (some shit as well) but for us to progress we need someone to look at our oponents and play / do whatever we need to do to win.

Mourinho, used to hand each player an A4 booklet to each player informing them of their likely opponents, players habits etc. Do you think this happens at the Villa? I doubt it. We don't chnage when we play different teams, the key is to adpat to circumstances. Big Sam often derided by many people on here, picks teams in order to try to beat, stiffle, take advantage of teh oppositions weaknesses etc. HE took a terrible Bolton team and got them to 6th spending little money. MONs motivational skills are not in question but his team mangement has to be. He is a 'leicester esque' manager good at getting the best out of toss. But I really don't think he's got what it takes to move us on.

So that's why I'd like him replaced. Any sensible discussion/ comments on my thoughts are encouraged

I think its a very feasible post and the thoughts of more folk than most on here would have you believe.

as for him losing his job.....there is only one thing that will lose him his job ....falling gates... and then he would walk on his own volition.

[granville]

For me, I can take losing, I can take poor player and team performances as long as we attempt to adress what's gone wrong.

Would that be like the poor performance against Blackburn which was addressed with changes in order to get 4 points of Citeh and Chelsea.

This is my annoyance with O'Neill he never makes any chnages. His insistence on ignoring tactics and playing his favourites will eventually cost him his job. He's a great motivator, but an extremely niaive and poor tactician, he seems afriad to make match chnaging substitutions.

What about Carew coming on for NRC at 0-0 against the scum. What was that if not a change? Carew played a massive part in the only goal of the game. Was that not match changing? The same thing applies to Heskey and the goal against Wolves.

Unless he learns to adapt - we will always be a nothing club - there's no pont beating Chelski and Liverpool if we lose against piss poor teams like Wigan, Blackburn and draw against rubbish like Wolves. We were lcuky against the noses as well, these teams will finish bottom 5 or 6 in the league and we play into their hands by not playing a midfield spoiler (i.e NRC / Gardner) in midfield.

I don't think we are a nothing club, I'm worried that you do. Anyway, I enjoyed the victories against Chelski and Plop, they are wins against great teams. How in the world is that pointless. If I thought that they were pointless I would never watch the games, just the table.

Steve Sidwell IS a midfield spoiler.

He's had 3 years and hasn't learned from his mistakes, he appears to be an intelligent man, but in terms of tactics, benches and substitutions and playing players out of position he is inept and frankly absymal. He's a stubborn man, so as he's unlikely to chnage then maybe we'll have to try someone different.

To save me repeating myself I'll just address the out of positions point. How would you define when a player is "out of position"? Was Gareth Barry out of position in CM? Is Joe Cole out of position in LM? Sometimes players play better in roles they have not been brought up in.

I cba to do the wall of text.

[granville]

I think its a very feasible post and the thoughts of more folk than most on here would have you believe.

He said he would like him replaced. Look at the poll at the top of the page. That's 14 folk, you and him included. You've almost got enough for a breakaway Villa rugby team.

[TRO]

I think its a very feasible post and the thoughts of more folk than most on here would have you believe.

He said he would like him replaced. Look at the poll at the top of the page. That's 14 folk, you and him included. You've almost got enough for a breakaway Villa rugby team.

The world does not just focus on VT

and your comments are selective too.Heskey was instrumental in the Wolves Goal as much as the Villa one so I'm not sure what you was trying to illustrate.

[commander]

For me, I can take losing, I can take poor player and team performances as long as we attempt to adress what's gone wrong.

Would that be like the poor performance against Blackburn which was addressed with changes in order to get 4 points of Citeh and Chelsea.

This is my annoyance with O'Neill he never makes any chnages. His insistence on ignoring tactics and playing his favourites will eventually cost him his job. He's a great motivator, but an extremely niaive and poor tactician, he seems afriad to make match chnaging substitutions.

What about Carew coming on for NRC at 0-0 against the scum. What was that if not a change? Carew played a massive part in the only goal of the game. Was that not match changing? The same thing applies to Heskey and the goal against Wolves.

Unless he learns to adapt - we will always be a nothing club - there's no pont beating Chelski and Liverpool if we lose against piss poor teams like Wigan, Blackburn and draw against rubbish like Wolves. We were lcuky against the noses as well, these teams will finish bottom 5 or 6 in the league and we play into their hands by not playing a midfield spoiler (i.e NRC / Gardner) in midfield.

I don't think we are a nothing club, I'm worried that you do. Anyway, I enjoyed the victories against Chelski and Plop, they are wins against great teams. How in the world is that pointless. If I thought that they were pointless I would never watch the games, just the table.

Steve Sidwell IS a midfield spoiler.

He's had 3 years and hasn't learned from his mistakes, he appears to be an intelligent man, but in terms of tactics, benches and substitutions and playing players out of position he is inept and frankly absymal. He's a stubborn man, so as he's unlikely to chnage then maybe we'll have to try someone different.

To save me repeating myself I'll just address the out of positions point. How would you define when a player is "out of position"? Was Gareth Barry out of position in CM? Is Joe Cole out of position in LM? Sometimes players play better in roles they have not been brought up in.

I cba to do the wall of text.

Sidwell the midfeild spoiler that plays attacking midfield for us :s

Fair play re the Carew chnage, but barring Harewoods cameos and yes the Heskey chnage, in the best part of 2.5 years that's 2 match chnaging subs. If we'd have bought NRc on agaisnt Stoke et al last season I'd wager we wouldn't have only won 2 out of 16 / 17 games, which incidentally we're the two poorest teams Newcastle and Hull.

Carlos Cuellar isn't a rightback. Nigel Reo-Coker isn't a right back, he is not a right winger. Emile Heskey isn't a right winger or indeed a left winger. That I would say is an example of players playing out of position. These have all happened this season, so don't say it's lasyt season.

We have a decent squad and have players to suit different formations etc buta manager who won't chnage.

We haven't played well this season, we've got some decent results and some catastrophic results.

[briny_ear]

For all the chattering on this site, the reality is that only 14 people have voted for MON out.

[barry'sboots]

That doesn't make a number of the points on this thread invalid.

I haven't voted for MON to go because I think he has built a very good squad and is capable of getting good results, BUT I am still left massively frustrated by his inflexibility and lack of tactical awareness without which I believe we could be top of the table at present.

I do, however, agree with many that I am not that sure who we would get in as a replacement that would do any better. Rafa makes the same mistakes, even SAF plays players in strange positions and Wenger still hasn't worked out that he needs a midfield enforcer. They are a frustrating bunch.

Its just a good job that we are all far superior managers. Wouldn't you just love a crack at it and I'd only need £10k a week to accept the job!

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

"Instead of this, MON shocked us all with his tactical genius and the substitution of JC for Emile."

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Who set the Agbonlahor goal up sorry?

This was exactly like Blues, Carew got the assist, We win 0-1. Mon got it tactically spot on.

Yesterday, 0-0 70 minutes, Mon brings on Heskey, we get the goal 0-1. Mon's a genius, Sidwell makes a rash tackle in the box, Mon's tactically poor....

I am not having a go at Emile, but he has to do something right with all the time he gets on the pitch. What I am criticising is MON's inability to try anything new when things aren't working. It was the same the last 15 games of last season - more of the same when he has options.

He did do something right, he created the goal and actually won a few flick on's. It weren't working against Wolves, he changed it and it did work, we got the goal. We didn't look like conceding a goal all game, in fact apart from that 4th minute shot, I don't think Friedel had to make a save, we had to try and find a way of winning the game, by scoring a goal, we scored a goal. So Mon got it spot on. Sidwell made a rash challenge in the area, an individual mistake. I don't see how it was Mon's fault against Wolves to be honest.

Well the incident that lead up to the penalty being concede was an Aerial tussle near the half way line that Heskey was out muscled/controlled and subsequently the ball was played in to our box.

Oh yeah cause Carew held the ball up well for us all game.

[HJ]

Its just a good job that we are all far superior managers. Wouldn't you just love a crack at it and I'd only need £10k a week to accept the job!

I think you would find out that introducing more flexibility just breaks things somewhere else..

I'm with you to a degree, I'd like to see MON use subs more and tailor the team a bit more to suit the opposition instead.

At the same time I understand what he's trying to achieve by sticking to what he views as his strongest 11 - it lets the players get used to each other and the tactics (esp. important for defensive unit), motivates them to do well so they won't get dropped (half the point of don't change the winning team), it helps the players relax and try to play their football knowing they won't probably be dropped on a whim because of one mistake or who we are playing on the night, manager showing his trust for the players helps their confidence, etc.

There are merits to his approach too even if I'd do it differently myself - and I don't think we'd be anywhere near the top of the table with a different approach, we just don't have the world class quality to put away opponents consistently like Chelsea and others do. Maybe we'd be a couple of points better off, or maybe a couple of points worse if it all didn't work out as well as it does in theory. It certainly isn't something that's a reason to sack him.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

That doesn't make a number of the points on this thread invalid.

I haven't voted for MON to go because I think he has built a very good squad and is capable of getting good results, BUT I am still left massively frustrated by his inflexibility and lack of tactical awareness without which I believe we could be top of the table at present.

I do, however, agree with many that I am not that sure who we would get in as a replacement that would do any better. Rafa makes the same mistakes, even SAF plays players in strange positions and Wenger still hasn't worked out that he needs a midfield enforcer. They are a frustrating bunch.

Its just a good job that we are all far superior managers. Wouldn't you just love a crack at it and I'd only need £10k a week to accept the job!

You make good points and tactically he isn't always right at all, but to say if tactically he weren't so stubborn we'd be top because don't forget we've picked up 7 points against Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City and that's not down to sheer luck! I thought the changes he made in the Blackburn game cost us the match. Apart from that I don't think tactically he's got too much wrong this year. Might say the Wigan game but none of the players seemed up for it, seemed a lack of belief, everyone that day was poor.

[Trajan]

That doesn't make a number of the points on this thread invalid.

I can only think of 17 valid points.

[picicata]

I think its a very feasible post and the thoughts of more folk than most on here would have you believe.

He said he would like him replaced. Look at the poll at the top of the page. That's 14 folk, you and him included. You've almost got enough for a breakaway Villa rugby team.

I voted 'Stay' however am generally in agreement with the crux of Commanders post... I don't feel MON is capable of moving us beyond our current level.

I voted 'stay' because getting rid of a manager during a season is a desperate thing to do, unfair on everyone involved (including the new manager) and can easily backfire on a club.

Come the end of season though, I think you will find the number of people voting 'Go' will increase by quite a number