Champions League 2024/25

[viivvaa66]

10 hours ago, rubberman said:

Isn't it also the basis for part of the carving up of cash? Higher coefficient, more money. One of the obscured changes aimed at shoring up the established 'elite' 

The coefficient used in the league stage is the 5 year club coefficient, while the coefficient used for the non-European value pillar (see: https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/028b-1a7880138a24-7a993e2e33d1-1000/20240322_circular_2024_13_en.pdf) is the 10 year club coefficient. But the non-European part is only 25% of the total value pillar, and since our coefficient is very low, we would end up with peanuts.

We should get a good portion of the European value pillar, since I believe England is ranked as number 1 media contributor. That would give us something like €31 millions, only the 3 other English teams will get more than us.

[MaVilla]

Where are we with our English player quota for the CL?

If i have read correctly:

• UEFA rules require us to register 25 players,
• 8 of which need to be homegrown.
• 4 of these homegrown players have to be 'club-trained' (up to a max requirement of 8 )
• The other 4 can have been trained by other English academies. A club homegrown (CHG) that has been in the club for 3 years between the ages of 15-21

 

4 x "club trained" homegrown - up to a max of 8

• Ramsey

 

4 x "other" English players (trained by other club between 15 and 21) - if cant fill above quota.

• Konsa
• Mings
• Martinez
• Rogers

 

I havent included club trained homegrown who arent part of the actual first team and play regularly, just to see where we are in terms of a competitive squad.

So im assuming, based on the above thats a 22 man squad, unless we add 3 x youth players in there, like Kellyman, KKH etc (assuming they class as club trained, not sure they do tbh).

 

Which of our current youth batch class as "club trained"?, or will class as it by the time the CL squad is announced? ie: 3 years at Villa between 15 and 21 yrs old.

 

Edited May 18 by MaVilla

[rubberman]

40 minutes ago, viivvaa66 said:

The coefficient used in the league stage is the 5 year club coefficient, while the coefficient used for the non-European value pillar (see: https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/028b-1a7880138a24-7a993e2e33d1-1000/20240322_circular_2024_13_en.pdf) is the 10 year club coefficient. But the non-European part is only 25% of the total value pillar, and since our coefficient is very low, we would end up with peanuts.

We should get a good portion of the European value pillar, since I believe England is ranked as number 1 media contributor. That would give us something like €31 millions, only the 3 other English teams will get more than us.

Thanks. Dear lord that's complicated (for the payment part). While we benefit from England being no1 which gives us a part ranking of 4th, that is then combined with our 10 Yr coefficient has us right near the bottom, so we'll end up being paid in the middle. 

It's still all heavily weighted to reward the same clubs every time as long as they can sneak in qualification. 

[ender4]

1 hour ago, HKP90 said:

17? Is that right? If we have to play 17 games we're gonna need to get some players in bigtime. Our existing squad would crumble to dust.

Well that’s if you go through the play-off round and then also get to the final.  Most likely we will play 10, maybe 12.

[CVByrne]

48 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Where are we with our English player quota for the CL?

If i have read correctly:

• UEFA rules require us to register 25 players,
• 8 of which need to be homegrown.
• 4 of these homegrown players have to be 'club-trained' (up to a max requirement of 8 )
• The other 4 can have been trained by other English academies. A club homegrown (CHG) that has been in the club for 3 years between the ages of 15-21

 

4 x "club trained" homegrown - up to a max of 8

• Ramsey

 

4 x "other" English players (trained by other club between 15 and 21) - if cant fill above quota.

• Konsa
• Mings
• Martinez
• Rogers

 

I havent included club trained homegrown who arent part of the actual first team and play regularly, just to see where we are in terms of a competitive squad.

So im assuming, based on the above thats a 22 man squad, unless we add 3 x youth players in there, like Kellyman, KKH etc (assuming they class as club trained, not sure they do tbh).

 

Which of our current youth batch class as "club trained"?, or will class as it by the time the CL squad is announced? ie: 3 years at Villa between 15 and 21 yrs old.

 

Tim now qualifies along with Ramsey. Sinisalo and Archer too if we choose to keep either around. 

[CVByrne]

52 minutes ago, rubberman said:

Thanks. Dear lord that's complicated (for the payment part). While we benefit from England being no1 which gives us a part ranking of 4th, that is then combined with our 10 Yr coefficient has us right near the bottom, so we'll end up being paid in the middle. 

It's still all heavily weighted to reward the same clubs every time as long as they can sneak in qualification. 

Not really, it's shifted to be weighted towards the best Leagues. So for example 75% of the media earnings is in European pillar - Premier League is top ranked. So we end up 4th ranked of the top pillar. We are then ranked 30th in the co-efficient pillar. So our average of the two is 17, we end up then ranked with the other teams and would probably end up around 14th lets say in the ranking. So being from the top League is a huge benefit in the new system financially. So in the example we would be 14th ranked we receive 23 shares and City would receive 36 shares. In the example where it's €960k per share we would get €22m, While we'd be among the bottom clubs in the 10 year coefficient so lets say get 2 shares of €320k.

We then get €18.6m for the League phase qualification. Then €2.1m per win and 0.7m per draw. Let's say we win 3 games and draw 2 that's another €7.7m, we then end mid table and get 18 shares in the league ranking (18 x €0.275m) = €4.95m and an added €1m for making it to the knockout stages. 

So in prize money alone we should be seeing around €55m or £47.3m. That's before the kicker in our sponsorship deals and the income from 5 home Champions League games. If we then qualify for round of 16 we get another €11m, then another €12.5m for QFs etc..

Now remember this is additional prize money, we will be paying players additional wages in terms of bonuses for qualifying for the CL so a large chunk of the new revenue is gone on higher salaries.

[Demitri_C]

47 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Tim now qualifies along with Ramsey. Sinisalo and Archer too if we choose to keep either around. 

Probably worth keeping archer alone for that reason but I think we will move him on unfortunately 

[Demitri_C]

Its such a great feeling to be in the champions league. Lets face it the last 10 years have been very up and down but when lerner gave up on us we entered a slow and horrific decline that led to our relegation.  A few bad years in the championship then we returned to where we belong the Premier league. Each season since we have been back we have finished higher and got better. But to get to the champions league this soon, in unais 1st full season is incredible. Dont think many of us would have thought this years ago. 

Its going to be tough but lets enjoy the ride and get behind the guys even if we do not get past the group pahse. Lets be proud we got there 

UTV

[rubberman]

29 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Not really, it's shifted to be weighted towards the best Leagues. So for example 75% of the media earnings is in European pillar - Premier League is top ranked. So we end up 4th ranked of the top pillar. We are then ranked 30th in the co-efficient pillar. So our average of the two is 17, we end up then ranked with the other teams and would probably end up around 14th lets say in the ranking. So being from the top League is a huge benefit in the new system financially. So in the example we would be 14th ranked we receive 23 shares and City would receive 36 shares. In the example where it's €960k per share we would get €22m, While we'd be among the bottom clubs in the 10 year coefficient so lets say get 2 shares of €320k.

We then get €18.6m for the League phase qualification. Then €2.1m per win and 0.7m per draw. Let's say we win 3 games and draw 2 that's another €7.7m, we then end mid table and get 18 shares in the league ranking (18 x €0.275m) = €4.95m and an added €1m for making it to the knockout stages. 

So in prize money alone we should be seeing around €55m or £47.3m. That's before the kicker in our sponsorship deals and the income from 5 home Champions League games. If we then qualify for round of 16 we get another €11m, then another €12.5m for QFs etc..

Now remember this is additional prize money, we will be paying players additional wages in terms of bonuses for qualifying for the CL so a large chunk of the new revenue is gone on higher salaries.

Thanks, that's clear. My point was that the 10yr ranking still gives £10+m more to say Man utd if they qualify next season. 

It's all good money and great for us, but giving out extra money just because a club was good in the past stinks to me. All the prize money should be based on the current season only. I suppose the argument would be that the 'big' names are what attract the viewers and therefore the money, but it is not a level playing field we joining. 

[CVByrne]

47 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Probably worth keeping archer alone for that reason but I think we will move him on unfortunately 

We only have 10 games to play before we can register up to 3 new players if we made it further than the knock out phase. We only need 22 or 23 players. Plus a few U21s we keep around before sending on Loan in Jan.

[CVByrne]

48 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Its such a great feeling to be in the champions league. Lets face it the last 10 years have been very up and down but when lerner gave up on us we entered a slow and horrific decline that led to our relegation.  A few bad years in the championship then we returned to where we belong the Premier league. Each season since we have been back we have finished higher and got better. But to get to the champions league this soon, in unais 1st full season is incredible. Dont think many of us would have thought this years ago. 

Its going to be tough but lets enjoy the ride and get behind the guys even if we do not get past the group pahse. Lets be proud we got there 

UTV

It was the period at the start of 2010 when we dropped from from 4th to 7th and kept drawing games. City were the new big spenders, Spurs head leapfrogged us. Then losing to City 2nd last game. It's just been downhill since start of 2010 to 2019. That decade and then the recovery under NSWE, Deano and now Emery. 

I just want us to be competing in the top 7/8 and always in Europe. If we don't make the CL we can win the Europa etc.. 

[CVByrne]

45 minutes ago, rubberman said:

Thanks, that's clear. My point was that the 10yr ranking still gives £10+m more to say Man utd if they qualify next season. 

It's all good money and great for us, but giving out extra money just because a club was good in the past stinks to me. All the prize money should be based on the current season only. I suppose the argument would be that the 'big' names are what attract the viewers and therefore the money, but it is not a level playing field we joining. 

Yes, but the old format was less favourable to new clubs from top Leagues like us. We qualified for CL at the right time, the new format. Germany and Italy also suffer from having an extra team in it as the total points they get is divided by 8 teams for the coefficient average and PL is by 7. 

[The_Steve]

Cheers Wrighty

 

[RicRic]

As fun as it sounds and i would like to see us play at least one of the spanish giant teams real or barca it would mean of course the sacrifice of gaining points in order to excel just for the sake of the experience and buzz playing those teams.

It about how we decipher being one of the top 8 teams out of the 32 or 36 listed, this challenge wont be easy of course

I currently see us maybe being the 15th/16th strongest team out them all on paper at least anyways 

[alreadyexists]

Just now, RicRic said:

As fun as it sounds and i would like to see us play at least one of the spanish giant teams real or barca it would mean of course the sacrifice of gaining points in order to excel just for the sake of the experience and buzz playing those teams.

It about how we decipher being one of the top 8 teams out of the 32 or 36 listed, this challenge wont be easy of course

I currently see us maybe being the 15th/16th strongest team out them all on paper at least anyways 

Well the way I see it is we have a half decent chance of making it to the play offs, so if we can win 4 out of our 8 game then we’ll be doing fine. I can’t see us getting past the play offs but if we do then that’s a major success. So I think bring on the biggest and best teams! 

[GlobalVillan]

13 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Tim now qualifies along with Ramsey. Sinisalo and Archer too if we choose to keep either around. 

Can't see any of those being at thr club next season. Maybe JJ due to his injury problems but you can't be a CL 4 side with those players in the squad. (Again, JJ aside)

[maqroll]

Quote

Aston Villa back in big time on their own merits

Victories over Arsenal and Manchester City were highlights of season that has produced club’s highest finish for 28 years

Aston Villa back in big time on their own merits | Aston Villa | The Guardian

[maqroll]

6 hours ago, The_Steve said:

Cheers Wrighty

 

All Ian Wright does when talking about Villa is name as many players as he can remember 

[briny_ear]

18 hours ago, maqroll said:

Aston Villa back in big time on their own merits | Aston Villa | The Guardian

Excellent article but I note it says this:

Quote

With key players regaining fitness this summer, Kamara by September, the boost of Champions League revenue, a new deal with Adidas and the potential sale of Douglas Luiz or Ramsey should help stave off the threat of sanctions under profitability and sustainability rules after a £119.6m loss last year.

So that’s Watkins, Duran, D Luiz and Ramsey who are off so far…. 

Edited May 19 by briny_ear

[maqroll]

On 18/05/2024 at 06:31, Demitri_C said:

Probably worth keeping archer alone for that reason but I think we will move him on unfortunately 

I hope he's given the opportunity this summer to improve on his poor showing last summer. He could come in handy for the reason you mentioned, but also for squad depth. League Cup, early round FA Cup, bottom table Prem sides..I hope he steps up. 

Edited May 19 by maqroll