Ratings & Reactions: Bournemouth v Villa

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, El Segundo said:

I've only seen the highlights but not giving a second yellow to Semenyo was a disgrace.    

It looked like we were somewhat fortunate to dig out a draw, despite hitting the post and having another marginally offside goal disallowed.  Martinez did brilliantly to keep out those two Solanke chances, but what were the bloody centre backs doing apart from ball watching? 

Shame we couldn't have played Bournemouth a few weeks ago when they were pants - they've looked a very decent side the last 4-5 games. 

Sadly I think our away form isn't good enough for us to finish in the top 4 this season, we're too flaky defensively and too many players seem to go into their shells away from home. Mind you if we can continue to dig out 4 points from every 6 when not at our best, who knows?  And there is plenty of room for improvement.   

Think Emery needs to dispense with the Konsa at right back experiment unless no other choice - didn't work against Spurs and again this week.

glad its not just me that noticed.

We do miss Mings.

Edited December 4, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

19 hours ago, East London Villa said:

I don't think we've been good in any of the past 3 games against Spurs Legia Bournemouth, but we've got 7 points from 9. That's the big positive for me.

We knew our lack of depth would come into the equation when fixtures pile up and it was plain to see today. Zaniolo is too expensive to be such a project, utterly pathetic in all departments. With Kamara out, Dendoncker and Iroegbunam are the profile of player we needed in midfield but for different reasons, Emery clearly doesn't trust either of them. He went with Luiz Tielemans and they were predictably overpowered. Cash has no competition for right back, showed us up today as the Konsa-Carlos axis was exploited time and again. Duran is so raw that he should only really be thrown on for a bit of chaos roulette when we're desperate (stupid card or great goal? what will it be!)

We are a good side with a great manager, but a collective lack of physicality, pace and intensity are our biggest weakness. I was surprised we went for Pau and Tielemans in the summer with that in mind. Obviously they have their upsides in other areas. Diaby and Zaniolo (at the time) made more sense to me because of the electric pace and Zaniolo's stature. But neither of them were in areas of the pitch you constantly compete for 50-50s and headers.

I still believe we are 3-4 players short of a squad capable of competing for Champions League spots. Back up keeper that isn't scared of a short pass. Right back. Big athletic midfielder. Striker. That is not a bad reflection at all on the job we've done so far under Emery and Monchi, we just have a bit further to go.

2 huge games next in which we will be big underdogs despite our home record. To say our defending needs to improve would be the understatement of the century. A lot of work to do in very little time. Good luck to Unai and the lads. UTV

My sentiments too.....some contrasting points of interest.

all True.imo

Pau and Tielemans i am happy we signed, despite your references.....but I get your point and have empathy with it.

Believe we are a few short too, for champions league place....but we need some new weapons to come in, not the same as what we already have....I hope its not just an upgrade, but a new skill set too.

I too believe the defending needs prime attention.....Without Emi, we would have a much different picture to be studying......He is covering some of the cracks, and needs more protection.

PS the 4 points is a massive positive.

 

 

[TRO]

20 hours ago, UpTheVilla26 said:

Take the point and run. 

We were crap to be honest. I think midweeks events probably played a part and maybe team selection wasn't the best with Zaniolo playing and Konsa pushed out to RB.

That header from Watkins was brilliant and scabbed us a point, which we bag and take. 

The next 2 games define us. If we come though with 3 points, it's massive. Realistically, I see 1 point but you don't know with us at VP, we are a totally different team. 

On a side note, ref was pathetic but we can't keep blaming that as 99% of them are and VAR is just as useless. 

Sorry, I don't think it does.....I can tell you before we play them.....we are not as good as either of them, irrespective of the score.

I don't think we are as good as Newcastle right now and they are below us.

We have done remarkably well.....but we still have some way to go.

[TRO]

19 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Getting results when not at our best, top teams do it all the time.

Bournemouth deserve credit as well though, they were good 

EMI Motm

The problem is Shaun.....they are all good if you let them be.....sadly we let teams look good....and then set out to out score them to win....That will only last so long.

Forest have won 1 game in 9.....and we made hard work of stopping them.....There is room for a conversation there, as unsavoury as some will say.

It depends what we want......If we want to go further and win things, we have to defend better as a team....That requires many things not withstanding staying on the ball....the ease in which we lose balls is concerning, the talent we have.

 

 

[Paul33]

9 hours ago, Ponky said:

Martinez far and away our best player but he was doing my head in bombing it long to Bailey in a one on one situation.

Bailey has the strength and resilience of a wet paper bag at the best of times and it was one such long ball from Martinez that led to their second goal.

Olsen wouldn't make that mistake !

[mjmooney]

49 minutes ago, TRO said:

Andy Grayesque

The exact thing that I said as soon as he did it. 

[thunderball]

We are doing very well, even better considering we have bedded in new players and lost 4 of last seasons starting 11 that finished so strongly. This league is harder than ever, the coaching quality and strength in depth of teams is at new levels, the old top three is now a top 6 or 7, in fact the top 10 is a difficult place to attain. Other than Sheffield (who we have yet to meet!), all other teams have some thing on their day and Bournmouth are on a very good run and you can see why.

We were out of sorts yesterday, but hung on to salvage something, thats the positive. We are finding the two games a week a challenge and December could break us, we already look a bit tired so the fact we are still getting points is a very good trait. This is why you see the same old sides at the top: champion's league money allows them bigger, better quality squads to compete on all fronts with rotation of quality players.

Newcastle are built on a good defensive structure and they have a bigger, more physical team, and they have busy front men - Gordon is playing very well at present. I think they are better than us, and possibly Spurs too, but we are doing alright, we are certainly in the mix and likely to be all season with Spurs, Newcastle and Man Utd. A lot of football still to play.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, nick76 said:

We miss Mings, I think we’ve gone from looking solid at the back to regularly vulnerable.

Am I wrong in thinking that and it’s some sort of ‘a player being a better player when out’ type thing. Ty obviously had a mistake in him but I never felt this vulnerable.

No......You are most definately right.

His attributes are missing, Pau despite all his superlative skill set....does not have the ability to engage physically as Tyrone.....He is the "Go to" dominant defender.....Ezri and Pau are more sweepers, both good defenders, but a different type....they are more likely to play off a Dominant defender, Like Allan Evans played off McNaught.

Ty mistakes started to dry up as Unai was making his mark, so I think his error laden past, was behind him.....Ty in my opinion, has covered for many players, for what he does good at, and a Mickey van de ven or a Sven Botman would have been a good buy for the squad.....I would still have bought Pau, for his undoubted class leading skills....I am not sure Carlos will be, what we was hoping for.

Edited December 4, 2023 by TRO

[tinker]

You could look at the defenders but apart from Carlos being careless I wouldn't necessarily point the lack of control in their direction. Without Kamara we are light weight in the middle and that's where I think we are lacking in closing out the opposition. Doug and Tielemans are very similar, to similar to rely on in a defensive sense as a pair in the middle. 

  

Edited December 4, 2023 by tinker

[TRO]

18 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Haven't watched the game yet -so won’t comment on that - was out at a concert this afternoon so was only able to keep in touch via bbc sport and VT match thread.

Have to say the match thread was a disgrace - seems we need to sell all the players and sack the manager because we had a game in a tough Thursday-Sunday sequence where we were a little jaded and had to hang in to get a point from a lively Bournemouth side who have nothing to focus on but league survival. I can guarantee under the last two managers we would have lost that and not had the issue of European matches to help explain it.

This thread is a bit of a disappointment as well. So critical and negative when we are having the best season in living memory. So many people saying we are “poor”. Somebody said in the match thread that we have been ”poor” since and including the Forest match. Well, we have won 4, drawn 1 and lost 1 during that time, so I conclude there is a very fine line between “poor” and “completely dominant”

Shame people can’t just relax and enjoy the excellent season we are having and the great goals we are creating - two more excellent ones today. And maybe be a bit more understanding of the stresses that Thursday-Sunday match sequences impose on a squad that has not had years and years of investment to create to sort of depth you really need to withstand those pressures. Personally, I think we are doing brilliantly.

There lies the issue, I think Brin.

I think we need to differentiate between Criticism and Observation.....and scoring goals and Conceding goals.

4 points from 2 tough away games is bang on the money.....our overall league position is tremendous....but as the thread says its a match reaction, where we talk about the game, not about how well we have done since previous managers.

I take it, we all want to win something.....and our form since Unai arrived is the conduit to possibly get there.....but whatever the mitigating circumstances, some of our on field actions i.e defending, is making it a tad more difficult at present.

Scoring 2 goals away from home, is as good as it gets, Imo, but to get results, you have to deny your opponents in getting any.....I think there was elements of the game, that we could have done better, with that.....thats is not to say, that equates to being ungrateful for past games of enthralling excitement.....its merely commenting on what we see.

I will be amazed, if Unai comes away from that game, and says to the players, nothing to work on, that was great, you have served me well, in my time here, so we will go in to the next 2 games, with our heads held high...."onward and upward"

No Brin.....You know, and I know, he will be working on things, he was not happy with........If its ok for him, its ok for us, to have a grown up conversation, of how we can improve, without Peeing on someone chips, because that is not the objective.

No one is ungrateful....its a different beast now, with different objectives and different standards....Hopefully that means we can have discussions of how we can improve, without being negative, or booing, when we are losing or struggling.

We as fans are learning too, to support a team with the above ideals and objectives...no one wants negative moaning, but constructive dialogue as to how we can improve, and identifying shortfalls should be a positive move.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, Paul33 said:

Tactical gaff from Emery in pushing Konsa wide at the back and pairing Torres and Carlos in central defence. We were starting without Kamara who adds protection at the back so you have to play safe and Konsa is safe ...... he's our best and most composed central defender and yet he is thrown out wide. I think Konsa would have stopped both Bournemouth goals. Very strange move !

In hindsight you are right paul....but Unai is trying to balance so many factors from Game time for individuals to energy levels to suspensions and looming threats.

Its inevitable errors will be made.

I still think the squad is short on top quality too, in certain area's , so a few raised eyebrows, from team announcements under those circumstances can happen.

Edited December 4, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Good that we have shown resilience again and managed to get the point. It's hard to assess our away form when we keep conceding first and conceding so early. 

I agree.

a good fight back.

but just being devils advocate.....would we have said " resillience" if Ollies header had of flown over?...just a thought.

we are sitting 7th in the away league, so its not so bad.

 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, est1874 said:

I don't know what the points were, go dig deeper if you want. 

I've never told anyone not to enjoy this season. I'm enjoying it immensely and Emery is doing a great job with what I think is not as good a squad as others seem to think they can will it to be.

I'm just not a happy clapper. All is not perfect and yesterday's performance was poor overall. We have some issues in the squad that need addressing.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying things overall while analysing the odd poor result here and there. It's not a crime to look a bit deeper into football than "shut up and support the Villa eh mate?"

I think there is a distinctive difference between commenting on a game.....and commenting on a season.

sadly, some folk want to mix them up.....and it creates a strawman argument.

Personally, I am over the moon, we managed to salvage a point.........but I am equally disappointed in some of the defending or containing.

We all see different things in a game, so I guess a different view will be mustered.

We currently have snow on our heads in the goal scoring tables.....its the manner of conceding, which needs attention.....and that relates to all the players not just the back 4....without the goal keeper, we would be having a much more unified conversation on this topic.

 

[Stevo985]

Crap performance really. Lucky to get a point. 
 

referee gets a -78,543 out of 10

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I agree.

a good fight back.

but just being devils advocate.....would we have said " resillience" if Ollies header had of flown over?...just a thought.

we are sitting 7th in the away league, so its not so bad.

 

We didn't deserve to get a point this time but we didn't deserve to lose at Forest. Luck balances itself out

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

We didn't deserve to get a point this time but we didn't deserve to lose at Forest. Luck balances itself out

was it Gary Player who said " The harder I work, the luckier, I get"?

I think off the ball, we could do better to stop opponents from gaining initiative.

[DaveAV1]

47 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Crap performance really. Lucky to get a point. 
 

referee gets a -78,543 out of 10

That’s a bit soft on the ref!

[CVByrne]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

was it Gary Player who said " The harder I work, the luckier, I get"?

I think off the ball, we could do better to stop opponents from gaining initiative.

I still think we've the right plan away from home. Try impose our game while trying to be more defensively solid. The idea is right, we just seem to concede early for differing reasons. A defensive error being the cause this time. 

Brentford will be interesting as they'll play their game and go for the win. We might do better than we think 

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

No......You are most definately right.

His attributes are missing, Pau despite all his superlative skill set....does not have the ability to engage physically as Tyrone.....He is the "Go to" dominant defender.....Ezri and Pau are more sweepers, both good defenders, but a different type....they are more likely to play off a Dominant defender, Like Allan Evans played off McNaught.

Ty mistakes started to dry up as Unai was making his mark, so I think his error laden past, was behind him.....Ty in my opinion, has covered for many players, for what he does good at, and a Mickey van de ven or a Sven Botman would have been a good buy for the squad.....I would still have bought Pau, for his undoubted class leading skills....I am not sure Carlos will be, what we was hoping for.

I would say the thing we miss most from Tyrone is his leadership and strength of character as well as his physicality. In fact I’d say we could do with a similar player in the middle of the pitch. They are few and far between though, particularly if they are high quality technical footballers as well. Step forward Monchi please!

[oishiiniku_uk]

20 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Ref let them bully us today. They don’t allow it at home.  I reckon this frustrated him too.

It was the same against Forest. I wonder how much the crowd plays a part in a ref's decision-making (whether they would admit it or not). If we'd been playing at home, there would probably have been more fouls given against Bournemouth (including a second yellow for Semenyo for his ridiculous shirt pull on Bailey).

Edited December 4, 2023 by oishiiniku_uk