Away Form

[sharkyvilla]

I may be remembering wrong but it seems to me the way the games have fallen, we always seem to miss a few key players in away games compared to home.  Considering it's always going to be tougher away I think we've done alright.  Last night was probably the first time I've thought Emery's game management was lacking and not proactive enough.

[El Segundo]

3 hours ago, useless said:

Time to snap out of it and get a grip, we're sixth in the away table, what do people expect, that we we should be winning every game or something, we're sixth in the away table and top of the home table, our form is fine.

 

I think you're missing the point here.  As many have said results wise, it looks pretty decent.  The real point though is that the performances have not deserved or justified those results, and more importantly, if the level of performance does not improve then the level of results is not sustainable.  Our away performances are the reason we cannot consider ourselves genuine title contenders, and the probable reason why 5th, or at a push 4th, is our ceiling this season.     

[rodders0223]

1 hour ago, El Segundo said:

 Our away performances are the reason we cannot consider ourselves genuine title contenders, and the probable reason why 5th, or at a push 4th, is our ceiling this season.     

Tragedy.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Bailey directly after they scored their first and McGinn directly after they scored their second. first produced a fantastic save from their keeper. The second got cleared off the line.

I think its a big ask, to score 4 away to Man U........yes Bournemouth scored 3.

for me 2 was enough...despite the other chances, you mention.

we could say, they could have scored 5/6, so its as long as it is short.

[andym]

I don't get the revisionism that goes on everytime we have a bad result away, labelling past games like Chelsea, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford etc as very poor/lucky. Yeah we absolutely weren't perfect, but if people are expecting to just rock up at these places and stroll to success, and anything less than that is a poor performance, than that's an issue with them.

That's not going to happen away from home, you have to grind out results and sometimes you need a bit of luck.

Wolves have beaten Man City and Spurs at their ground, got robbed by VAR against Newcastle. We battle to a tough point against them in a local derby (actually giving up less chances against than some of those other sides) and apparently its not good enough. The only team Bournemouth have dropped points against in 7 games is us, and if we are going to say we got lucky with a red card for Brentford, then we got unlucky as Bournemouth should have been playing most of that game with 10 men.

As for Brentford, i wonder if Arsenal fans look back on their win there as lucky, given Brentford had two cleared off the line and Arsenal needed an 89th min winner. 

Spurs missed chances against us 1st half (as did we with Pau free header 7 yards out he missed and Ollie straying a mm offside when he shouldn't really have for his disallowed goal), but go and watch Liverpool's game at Wolves where they won 3-1 - looks easy on the face of it but Wolves battered them 1st half and should have been out of sight. Liverpool struggled recently against Palace until Ayew got sent off.

Consistently performing away is tough. Brighton were the 4th best away team last year and lost 7 games on the road including failing to beat any of the relegated teams away. Man U lost 8 and were still 5th best away.

Even the best away side in Arsenal drew away at Soton, and scraped past Leeds 1-0 with Bamford missing a penalty, lost away at Forest, and blew 2-0 leads at both Liverpool and West Ham.

[Davkaus]

30 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Tragedy.

When we lose a game fans go insane

It's tragedy

[TRO]

1 hour ago, andym said:

I don't get the revisionism that goes on everytime we have a bad result away, labelling past games like Chelsea, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford etc as very poor/lucky. Yeah we absolutely weren't perfect, but if people are expecting to just rock up at these places and stroll to success, and anything less than that is a poor performance, than that's an issue with them.

That's not going to happen away from home, you have to grind out results and sometimes you need a bit of luck.

Wolves have beaten Man City and Spurs at their ground, got robbed by VAR against Newcastle. We battle to a tough point against them in a local derby (actually giving up less chances against than some of those other sides) and apparently its not good enough. The only team Bournemouth have dropped points against in 7 games is us, and if we are going to say we got lucky with a red card for Brentford, then we got unlucky as Bournemouth should have been playing most of that game with 10 men.

As for Brentford, i wonder if Arsenal fans look back on their win there as lucky, given Brentford had two cleared off the line and Arsenal needed an 89th min winner. 

Spurs missed chances against us 1st half (as did we with Pau free header 7 yards out he missed and Ollie straying a mm offside when he shouldn't really have for his disallowed goal), but go and watch Liverpool's game at Wolves where they won 3-1 - looks easy on the face of it but Wolves battered them 1st half and should have been out of sight. Liverpool struggled recently against Palace until Ayew got sent off.

Consistently performing away is tough. Brighton were the 4th best away team last year and lost 7 games on the road including failing to beat any of the relegated teams away. Man U lost 8 and were still 5th best away.

Even the best away side in Arsenal drew away at Soton, and scraped past Leeds 1-0 with Bamford missing a penalty, lost away at Forest, and blew 2-0 leads at both Liverpool and West Ham.

You are bang on....its so, so difficult away from home.....all the more reason, why you have to compete for the ball...not just rely on flicks and tricks.

I think "grinding out results", is a contentious issue, some folk, think we do, some folk think we don't, and some folk think we don't do it enough....getting wins away, is not necesarily grinding out results.

I think there has been times away from home, were we have been passive, and not competed enough for a top 4 team...At home we seem more combative, and passionate, more inclined to be quicker to the ball, more up for stamping our mark.

Its hard away from home, you are right....all the more reason why we need a few characters, inclined to relish that kind of environment... we have a few, not enough for me.

We can tend to wait for the opponent, in games as opposed to going after them, and we create this passive environment, where they grow in stature and confidence... we are suseptible to it.

We do tend to look back on games against Man U, with an air of missed opportunity....but we do that with Wolves too....so its not a one off....its in our DNA...sometimes showing more than other times.

We can be a highly skilled football team, as we eloquently displayed against Man City.....but we can also be a team that is very benevolent at offering a life line to teams, as we displayed against Man U

Its never really sure, which one is going to turn up.

 

[foreveryoung]

2 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

Tragedy.

I'm sure this is how the away fans feel having travelled around the country.

There's different sets of fans I guess.

[rodders0223]

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I'm sure this is how the away fans feel having travelled around the country.

There's different sets of fans I guess.

We sold 5k out most weeks losing in the Championship and still had a grand old time. I'm sure they won't be slitting their wrists putting in some poor performances whilst sitting top 4 at Christmas ffs.

And people slating me for losing my shit with players and management when we lying midtable back then. At least I was honest and realistic.

[foreveryoung]

17 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

We sold 5k out most weeks losing in the Championship and still had a grand old time. I'm sure they won't be slitting their wrists putting in some poor performances whilst sitting top 4 at Christmas ffs.

And people slating me for losing my shit with players and management when we lying midtable back then. At least I was honest and realistic.

Like has been repaeted time and time again, it's the way we lose which infuriates fans, 2-0 up then lose 3-2. A 2-0 loss away to Man U would have been, ohh well standard.

[Pinebro]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

it's the way we lose which infuriates fans, 2-0 up then lose 3-2

It feels like absolute shit

I'm still not over it

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Like has been repaeted time and time again, it's the way we lose which infuriates fans, 2-0 up then lose 3-2. A 2-0 loss away to Man U would have been, ohh well standard.

It was a pathetic capitulation. Not once did it feel like we had a grip on that game.

[ender4]

We are 7th in the away form table. 3 points behind Arsenal but they have a game in hand.

Not too bad but probably need to improve a little if we want top 4.

[TRO]

On 27/12/2023 at 15:19, andym said:

I don't get the revisionism that goes on everytime we have a bad result away, labelling past games like Chelsea, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford etc as very poor/lucky. Yeah we absolutely weren't perfect, but if people are expecting to just rock up at these places and stroll to success, and anything less than that is a poor performance, than that's an issue with them.

That's not going to happen away from home, you have to grind out results and sometimes you need a bit of luck.

Wolves have beaten Man City and Spurs at their ground, got robbed by VAR against Newcastle. We battle to a tough point against them in a local derby (actually giving up less chances against than some of those other sides) and apparently its not good enough. The only team Bournemouth have dropped points against in 7 games is us, and if we are going to say we got lucky with a red card for Brentford, then we got unlucky as Bournemouth should have been playing most of that game with 10 men.

As for Brentford, i wonder if Arsenal fans look back on their win there as lucky, given Brentford had two cleared off the line and Arsenal needed an 89th min winner. 

Spurs missed chances against us 1st half (as did we with Pau free header 7 yards out he missed and Ollie straying a mm offside when he shouldn't really have for his disallowed goal), but go and watch Liverpool's game at Wolves where they won 3-1 - looks easy on the face of it but Wolves battered them 1st half and should have been out of sight. Liverpool struggled recently against Palace until Ayew got sent off.

Consistently performing away is tough. Brighton were the 4th best away team last year and lost 7 games on the road including failing to beat any of the relegated teams away. Man U lost 8 and were still 5th best away.

Even the best away side in Arsenal drew away at Soton, and scraped past Leeds 1-0 with Bamford missing a penalty, lost away at Forest, and blew 2-0 leads at both Liverpool and West Ham.

Its hard to give constructive observation, towards vulnerabilities, after we have won.......so when can you offer constructive reflections.

despite our formidable home record, we have only kept 4 clean sheets, which means, even when we have dominated teams...we have conceded.

Our ability to score goals, has us where we are ( which is fantastic) but opponents will want to stop us, and this is where, we will have to rely more on defending.

Despite this great home record, 6 middling teams have breached our defence....We are still not hard to play against, despite a 3rd placed position.

I know we are WIP....and its not having a pop at what has been a great season so far.....but if we want to improve, we need to look a bit closer forensically at our frailties.

[ender4]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its hard to give constructive observation, towards vulnerabilities, after we have won.......so when can you offer constructive reflections.

despite our formidable home record, we have only kept 4 clean sheets, which means, even when we have dominated teams...we have conceded.

Our ability to score goals, has us where we are ( which is fantastic) but opponents will want to stop us, and this is where, we will have to rely more on defending.

Despite this great home record, 6 middling teams have breached our defence....We are still not hard to play against, despite a 3rd placed position.

I know we are WIP....and its not having a pop at what has been a great season so far.....but if we want to improve, we need to look a bit closer forensically at our frailties.

A stronger right back and a better back-up DM might help improve our defensive stats.

[TRO]

On 27/12/2023 at 19:25, Pinebro said:

It feels like absolute shit

I'm still not over it

I think the answer is to realise, we still have a lot of work to do....3rd place has blinded some, in to thinking, that there is no further work to do.

Unai, never thought that for one minute....and neither did some of the fans.....that is not to be misconstrued as us not being pleased with the progress so far.

I am not trying to be clever, but watching that game and being ecstatic at 2-0 up.....I could see it coming... my mistake was saying it during the game ,those evil eyes from the Missus, ( she is also a season ticket holder)

Teams far worse than us, may not have allowed that to happen..make no mistake about that, we were the architects of our own demise, on the day....and on forensic examination, the flaws were there to see.......once again....sure missing KEY players contributed heavily towards it and just goes to show the lack of depth.

If we don't make the right moves, to deal with it....it will happen again....It happened against Leicester last season, it happened against Wolves and it happened against the same team last season in the cup, with some of the same players, causing it... and its happened to a lesser degree in games that we have won, but has been masked over.

I have to believe, that it will be dealt with in time.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

On 27/12/2023 at 17:38, rodders0223 said:

We sold 5k out most weeks losing in the Championship and still had a grand old time. I'm sure they won't be slitting their wrists putting in some poor performances whilst sitting top 4 at Christmas ffs.

And people slating me for losing my shit with players and management when we lying midtable back then. At least I was honest and realistic.

you Oak

[cheltenham_villa]

On 27/12/2023 at 15:18, TRO said:

I think its a big ask, to score 4 away to Man U........yes Bournemouth scored 3.

for me 2 was enough...despite the other chances, you mention.

we could say, they could have scored 5/6, so its as long as it is short.

I think the way the game played out. We needed to score 3. After being two down, United gambled and played a really high front 3 right up against our back 4 really pressing the ball. They also went very direct, very quickly when ever they got the ball. This was a gamble and it gambled that we wouldn't score again. 

If we get the third goal, I think it kills the momentum. 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said:

I think the way the game played out. We needed to score 3. After being two down, United gambled and played a really high front 3 right up against our back 4 really pressing the ball. They also went very direct, very quickly when ever they got the ball. This was a gamble and it gambled that we wouldn't score again. 

If we get the third goal, I think it kills the momentum. 

you have a point for sure....but they did all this, last season in the cup....we did much the same at St James's and Anfield.

We have to address it at some stage.

I still think its ambitious to expect to score 3 at Old Trafford, even though Bournemouth did.

[Follyfoot]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Its hard to give constructive observation, towards vulnerabilities, after we have won.......so when can you offer constructive reflections.

despite our formidable home record, we have only kept 4 clean sheets, which means, even when we have dominated teams...we have conceded.

Our ability to score goals, has us where we are ( which is fantastic) but opponents will want to stop us, and this is where, we will have to rely more on defending.

Despite this great home record, 6 middling teams have breached our defence....We are still not hard to play against, despite a 3rd placed position.

I know we are WIP....and its not having a pop at what has been a great season so far.....but if we want to improve, we need to look a bit closer forensically at our frailties.

We have sacrificed the ducks arse of a defence for more pragmatic, attacking defence that leaks more goals but also scores plenty more. This is Partly due to Tyrone’s injury and partly due to the emergency of Torres Tyrone is the missing piece of the jigsaw, and if we had him now we would be comfortably top by several points as we could mix and match our style of play more, play him against the higher ranking teams, or bring him on for the last 20 minutes to shore things up

To me, that is the biggest problem we have this year

Edited December 29, 2023 by Follyfoot