MrBlack Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 55 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: If you re engage with the same fanbase... won't you likely get the same results? Although, last time they made it only season ticket holders of something of the like. They need a much broader range of opinion, from people of all ages and generations of fans IMO. ( If they insist on engaging ) ONLY as some sort of guide... In the end... they should go with whatever the absolute best design for the club going forward is. Of course, then they can do whatever they want as they will get so many different responses that they'll be able to justify anything. I feel like this is what they should have done anyway, and let Dragon Rouge loose to do what they do best. I dont like Heck from the info I have about him so far, but I do think he'll do a good job on the crest side of things. Hopefully that faith isn't misplaced 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 28 minutes ago, Stephen_Evans said: Whatever the rights and wrongs of the new (soon to be old) badge, sabotaging its launch and then saying it hasn’t had the desired impact is a bit daft. Probably an easier PR message to put out than "Heck came in and asked what the **** we were playing at releasing a Chelsea badge" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 22 minutes ago, ejs1111 said: I'm with an earlier poster as really starting to not like this Heck bloke. Completely agree with the elegant and timeless comment above. However regarding the bold passage about majority- our current round badge was voted in by like 75-80% in favor. I'd argue that is a super majority. This whole ordeal is ONLY happening because of Heck imo. With regard to Mr Heck, he's not really been here long enough for me to of really formed much of an opinion on him. I just know a bit of the work he did with the 76ers. Elegant and timeless, would you say the new round crest is either of those things? Do you feel it is a good representation of us? Because that's what our crest should be. If you do that is absolutely fine, it's all a matter of opinion and everybody will have one, there's no right or wrong, black or white answer here. Personally, I don't, it doesn't feel unique to us, you could swap the colours and change the name and use it for any club with a lion and it would mean as much to them as it does to us. The 75%-80% you mention was between the gaslamp design and the round design, there was no option for 'neither' or anything else, just a straight this one or that one. I was in no way surprised the round design won by that margin. The new design may well listen to that survey and still be round, but until we see it we just don't know. If Purslow was still with us you are right, we would be sticking with the new design, but the question is should we? Is that design good enough to stick with for the next 20 years? Does it represent Aston Villa sufficiently? Is it possible Heck and his team can come up with something better, that better represents us and make this season of two badges worth it? I don't know, let's see what they come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Daveburnside Posted September 26, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2023 They should leave it to the professionals. Fans don't have a scooby. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 26, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, Daveburnside said: They should leave it to the professionals. Fans don't have a scooby. Correct 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Daveburnside said: They should leave it to the professionals. Fans don't have a scooby. Yeah cause that works so well for our kit designs. Fans designs are overwhelmingly better consistently than professionals. Edited September 26, 2023 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 51 minutes ago, jayEm said: Does anyone else not know what a marque is? What will an 'anniversary marque' entail exactly? A marque is what we call the badges on cars... like the Mercedes badge you see on an A or C class or the VW badge you see on a Golf or a Passat. The models have their own name but then a Marque that links them all to the mother brand. I have no (f)hecking clue what they mean by this though. Are we planning to have a "brand" logo that we then have separate model logos for depending on the product? It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yeah cause that works so well for our kit designs. Fans designs are overwhelmingly better consistently than professionals. Nope. A couple of designs from hundreds out there are nice. Those are mostly done by designers, i.e. professionals. I too think the badge should be left to experts. I don't want to decide if the badge is round or square or a triangle, because I don't know what the effect of such a decision will be. It might not be the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 12 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yeah cause that works so well for our kit designs. Fans designs are overwhelmingly better consistently than professionals. 4 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Nope. A couple of designs from hundreds out there are nice. Those are mostly done by designers, i.e. professionals. Yup. Some individual fans may do a very good job. But at the third time of asking in 15 years or so, it'd be a shame if we've not learned that badge by committee isn't a great idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 Just now, Mic09 said: Nope. A couple of designs from hundreds out there are nice. Those are mostly done by designers, i.e. professionals. But the club associated professionals get it wrong almost every season by the reaction on here, other platforms and at the ground. So while yes not all the fan designs are good, the clubs are almost always poor. So “Nope” comment I’m not sure I agree with 4 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I too think the badge should be left to experts. No chance, that’s how we got the last concoction. 5 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I don't want to decide if the badge is round or square or a triangle, because I don't know what the effect of such a decision will be. It might not be the best. Like anything it should be collaboration between fans and experts because it’s something deeply personal, and the experts have the technical expertise in design along with branding needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Yup. Some individual fans may do a very good job. But at the third time of asking in 15 years or so, it'd be a shame if we've not learned that badge by committee isn't a great idea What do you mean? It worked and got a badge that got the majority vote and if it wasn’t for Heck it would be our badge going forwards. The process worked, just the new guy doesn’t like it. The fact some fans in the minority didn’t like it doesn’t mean the process didn’t work it’s just bitterness in not getting the badge they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: What do you mean? It worked and got a badge that got the majority vote and if it wasn’t for Heck it would be our badge going forwards. The process worked, just the new guy doesn’t like it. The fact some fans in the minority didn’t like it doesn’t mean the process didn’t work it’s just bitterness in not getting the badge they wanted. It got a majority vote, when it was down to a final 2, and the other one was pretty dreadful. Does that mean the majority of fans like it? I wouldn't be so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 None of it is backed by actual sales data either Easy to sit here and say online designers are "better" but Castore will or at least should know what sells and what their remit is from the club Not sure if rob knows what the Castore sales data is like and if these kits are popular or sell well, I'd have thought this year's white one did well but then with the price increases and cost of living I'd have thought football shirts are on a downward trend regardless of design I'd love to know which of our shirts did the best in the last 10-20 years, I'd expect it would be a shock (unless it's luke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I'd expect it would be a shock (unless it's luke) That'd shock me, you couldn't buy the **** thing for months at a time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Good turn the lion back the right **** way for starters and back to gold Upside down lion for the next badge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 "Lets engage with the fans for the new crest" "What if the fans pick a badge we don't like?" "We'll engage with them again until we get one we like" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: It got a majority vote, when it was down to a final 2, and the other one was pretty dreadful. Does that mean the majority of fans like it? I wouldn't be so sure. Well it got all the elements that the majority asked for in the survey and then the majority picked it. You have to have a process to whittle it down and I agree the process was far from perfect but we asked for it in our responses, some of the fan groups got involvement in it and then it was whittled down and we voted. Not sure what much more could’ve been done to such a diverse group of supporters. The majority of fans said they wanted a round badge and it has been commented on for years since the last badge was introduced. We wanted Aston Villa written out, we wanted Claret and Blue, we wanted the lion and star. I’m not sure what else from the club you were going to get. The fans had spoken. Just some fans wanted something different or unique. The vast amount of Villa fans responses wanted above so that was one of the options. Not sure how you can then say it’s not what the majority wanted. It was! It wasn’t the greatest version of that type of badge but it had all the elements asked for. It also seemed before we’d seen the finalists that most commented that a round badge would win because the majority wanted it and it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Captain_Townsend said: They got out relatively unscathed in 2022 in that there was a clear preference for one option (most would have preferred it with the lion facing left). Since then they have made a mess of it. We have two badges now and they are Opening the whole can of worms, again, for very spurious reasons. Even if you disagree with my take you have to admit they are treating fans like idiots- the last consultation was clearly about finding a 'permanent' badge yet they are spinning it retrospectively as a kit only one season wonder. Come on! Such nonsense. Just wish they would be more honest. In fairness mate... whilst some view it as them " Looking like idiots ", I actually think it's brave and better instead of kicking the can down the road just because. The " badge " needs to be part of a uniform identity, going forward. As mentioned it's 150 year anniversary coming up. For all we know, it could be that they want something which truly embodies the whole club, it's history, and it's future. It might not even be a full departure from the round badge, just different execution and ways of incorporating all the elements seperately whilst also being more cohesive. Again though, some people just need to accept that change is inevitable, and there are present and future generations of Villa fans who won't identify with the same things fans of yesteryear identified with. It's a whole different ball game now, especially with social media, clearcut simplicity and striking balance wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ejs1111 said: and you keep pushing this narrative... when in reality the vote was over 75% in favor of the round badge from the AVFC consultation if I remember correctly. I'm thinking it was more 50/50 hehe Well as only a certain section of fans were allowed to vote... it's not necessarily an accurate reflection of the fanbase as a whole is it? Only a certain demographic which will mostl likely be made up of a majority " type " of fan was allowed to vote. I wasn't allowed to vote myself and I'm sure millions of others weren't either. It's essentially like Putin winning an election by a landslide with the " majority " vote. I don't hate this badge either... but it certainly could be improved/modernised. Edited September 26, 2023 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, villa89 said: Yet another new crest, hopefully its not turd and has no cringe star. Something unique. One on the left is pretty good if going symbolic to be fair. ( Needs some gold though imo, even if it's just piping/border. Actually much better than the previous proposed one on the right. Edited September 26, 2023 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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