lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 28 minutes ago, bobzy said: You've suddenly chucked in "goal difference", which I haven't been discussing at all. I've said our weakness is scoring goals. Not the difference between how many we've scored and how many we've conceded. Scoring goals. If over a season you score 30 more than you concede, is that a failure to score goals? Is goal difference not a vastly more important stat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, lexicon said: If over a season you score 30 more than you concede, is that a failure to score goals? Is goal difference not a vastly more important stat? If we scored 100 goals, but conceded 96, wouldn't you agree we'd need to work on not conceding goals? Why are you shifting the conversation onto goal difference when I'm clearly talking about scoring goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 58 minutes ago, bobzy said: If we scored 100 goals, but conceded 96, wouldn't you agree we'd need to work on not conceding goals? Why are you shifting the conversation onto goal difference when I'm clearly talking about scoring goals? If you need to stop conceding goals, do you look at players, the system or both? Emery's tactics are not gung-ho attacking - it's about controlling games and defensive rigidity. We need to sign players that work in that system. Barnes does not appear to be that kind of player. Besides, if the net result is a plus 30 goal difference, there isn't a problem. I don't know why you think goal scored is a more valuable metric than goal difference and I don't understand why you think a player who scores some goals in one system will definitely do so in a completely different one. This sort of thinking is how you end with Danny Ings when you don't need him or Ross McCormack - hopefully we're well beyond that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 Just now, lexicon said: If you need to stop conceding goals, do you look at players, the system or both? Emery's tactics are not gung-ho attacking - it's about controlling games and defensive rigidity. We need to sign players that work in that system. Barnes does not appear to be that kind of player. Besides, if the net result is a plus 30 goal difference, there isn't a problem. I don't know why you think goal scored is a more valuable metric than goal difference and I don't understand why you think a player who scores some goals in one system will definitely do so in a completely different one. This sort of thinking is how you end with Danny Ings when you don't need him or Ross McCormack - hopefully we're well beyond that. Goals scored isn't a more valuable metric than goal difference. Where did I say that? The second bit in bold is just **** weird. Of course there's no guarantee, but if you're not great at scoring goals, you find a player who will help alleviate that. So, back to my original point, the main problem we have, generally, is scoring goals. You cannot be dependant on keeping out an average of 6 goals every 10 games. If you extrapolate that over a 38 game season (which you like to do), you'll end up conceding 23 goals. This has happened 4 times in Premier League history. Are you honestly suggesting that you think we're in a position to concede as few as 23 goals next season? It's not going to happen. So what do you do? You improve the goal return. Where do we have a problem with goals? Well, Watkins has scored 14 which isn't terrible - puts him joint 9th top scorer in the league. Next best in our team is Jacob Ramsey with 6. For a side pushing top 6, that isn't good enough. Where do you think we need to improve, though, if it isn't in attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, bobzy said: Goals scored isn't a more valuable metric than goal difference. Where did I say that? The second bit in bold is just **** weird. Of course there's no guarantee, but if you're not great at scoring goals, you find a player who will help alleviate that. So, back to my original point, the main problem we have, generally, is scoring goals. You cannot be dependant on keeping out an average of 6 goals every 10 games. If you extrapolate that over a 38 game season (which you like to do), you'll end up conceding 23 goals. This has happened 4 times in Premier League history. Are you honestly suggesting that you think we're in a position to concede as few as 23 goals next season? It's not going to happen. So what do you do? You improve the goal return. Where do we have a problem with goals? Well, Watkins has scored 14 which isn't terrible - puts him joint 9th top scorer in the league. Next best in our team is Jacob Ramsey with 6. For a side pushing top 6, that isn't good enough. Where do you think we need to improve, though, if it isn't in attack? There's more to attack than simply scoring goals - you have to create the conditions to score them and the best way to do that is by signing someone who fits the system to a tee. Barnes doesn't look like he would. There's nothing really to say he'd be any better than Bailey or Traore, and he would possibly offer us less in a creative sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 Just now, lexicon said: There's more to attack than simply scoring goals - you have to create the conditions to score them and the best way to do that is by signing someone who fits the system to a tee. Barnes doesn't look like he would. There's nothing really to say he'd be any better than Bailey or Traore, and he would possibly offer us less in a creative sense. There is. But for the last time, we struggle to score goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 19 hours ago, Rich192 said: This is why those of us who don’t want to sign him are against the signing. Pass completion, successful take-ons, and shot creating actions are just really poor. You take his goals away, and he’s an average player. He's playing for a side who are relegated. He's passing to tree's. Go through the previous seasons fbref when Leicester were good. You see different stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, bobzy said: There is. But for the last time, we struggle to score goals. Regardless of that debate, Barnes doesn't necessarily help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, CVByrne said: He's playing for a side who are relegated. He's passing to tree's. Go through the previous seasons fbref when Leicester were good. You see different stats Or is he one of the trees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, lexicon said: Or is he one of the trees? No, he’s clearly one of their best attacking talents and would be a massive upgrade on Bailey / Traore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 30 minutes ago, lexicon said: Or is he one of the trees? He's not a centre forward and doesn't take pens and scored 2 goals less than Watkins who plays CF for a side in 7th. He's clearly a tree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, KentVillan said: No, he’s clearly one of their best attacking talents and would be a massive upgrade on Bailey / Traore I don't agree, sorry. I think a lot of you are basing your opinion of him off the fact that he was decent against us rather than his full body of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, KentVillan said: No, he’s clearly one of their best attacking talents and would be a massive upgrade on Bailey / Traore Like this is stating the obvious. It's crazy why people are against a player like Barnes. Imagine the same people 12 or 18 month's ago would have said a player that good would never join Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Like this is stating the obvious. It's crazy why people are against a player like Barnes. Imagine the same people 12 or 18 month's ago would have said a player that good would never join Villa It's almost as if things changed massively over the last year and out style is totally different, requiring a different type of player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, lexicon said: I don't agree, sorry. I think a lot of you are basing your opinion of him off the fact that he was decent against us rather than his full body of work. He has better goal contributions per 90 every season for the last 4 seasons than any player who has played for Villa in the last decade. He's an outstanding goal threat and literally perfect to play with Watkins. He's lightning quick and can carry the ball forward. He's a fantastic player and that's before Emery makes him even better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 48 minutes ago, CVByrne said: He's playing for a side who are relegated. He's passing to tree's. Go through the previous seasons fbref when Leicester were good. You see different stats One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on here... He's been passing to players I've heard VillaTalkers begging us to sign every summer for the past few years... Tielemans, Maddison, Vardy, Daka, Iheanacho, Ndidi... Leicester's problem hasn't been the fact that there are a bunch of trees playing for them up front, it's because their defense is nonexistent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, CVByrne said: He has better goal contributions per 90 every season for the last 4 seasons than any player who has played for Villa in the last decade. He's an outstanding goal threat and literally perfect to play with Watkins. He's lightning quick and can carry the ball forward. He's a fantastic player and that's before Emery makes him even better So tell me this then - are you his father, brother or agent? And why aren't every team breaking the door down to sign this Haaland/Mbappe hybrid? Edited May 27, 2023 by lexicon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 Over last 4 seasons he's got 56 goals and assists from 97.1 90mins. That's 0.58 per 90. That's leagues better than any player we've got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 1 minute ago, lexicon said: So tell me this then - are you his father, brother or agent? And why aren't every team breaking the door down to sign this Haaland/Mbappe hybrid? Who has said he's a Haaland/Mbappe hybird? Oh yeah. Absolutely **** no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, KMitch said: One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on here... He's been passing to players I've heard VillaTalkers begging us to sign every summer for the past few years... Tielemans, Maddison, Vardy, Daka, Iheanacho, Ndidi... Leicester's problem hasn't been the fact that there are a bunch of trees playing for them up front, it's because their defense is nonexistent. Nah mate, all those international players who cost tens of millions are terrible and holding back the second coming of Maradona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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