Deano & Dalian's Umbrella Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) Much respect to Ty Bracey who is a lot braver than me and has the balls to stand up for what they think is right. #Off-Brand #Suck-c*** Edited February 16 by Deano & Dalian's Umbrella 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 18 minutes ago, wishywashy said: Villa still have their "Future of Villa Park" page, complete with FAQs, on the website. I mean. That's really really shoddy isn't it? Even if it's not a permanent cancellation, take the pages down and relaunch them if the stand then goes ahead later. Again, just another example of amateurish administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 55 minutes ago, sidcow said: Sales people are not people people, unless they're trying to sell them something. They're generally insufferable to anyone they're not trying to sell something to. They are also generally focused on short term goals. Sure pipeline and long term strategy comes into it, but their real energy is just to get whatever deal done they're working on. They have a strange desire to be "the boss" and if they're good are often made "the boss" because the powers that be a) want to keep them sweet and b) think they'll somehow turn the whole place into a sales culture (money making) machine. But when they are made the boss they're not actually that interested in the running the business bit, they're back chasing their deals and shaking down anyone else who doesn't do the same. Essentially in my experience making a sales guy the boss is a terrible idea and always results in discontent and people leaving in droves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 18 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: Worth pointing out many fans were excited to have a new badge last May and his first decision was to announce it was just for the kits, and the old one was being kept for everything else. He immediately killed the new badge and dampened any sense of excitement many fans had about the rebrand. I did like the badge when released (OK I know many didn't) but it's really grown on me throughout the season. I think it looks really class. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted February 15 Popular Post Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: Which is a big part of my problem It's alleged, based on what? And proven how? How does the writer of this document know there was no tendering process? If I'm to believe this document then I need those details How would an employee report that to the board? What level of employee would you need to be to know that? I read that document as someone spouting office gossip I think it's probably wise to treat this as gossip until there's something more concrete. The issue Heck has got is that he's come across so poorly over the previous year that people are entirely willing to believe it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 I thought Heck was doing an absolutely brilliant job according to some people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, sidcow said: The one thing I am absolutely certain of is that good sales people. People who use the hard sell, are driven and uncompromising in getting the very best deals, who negotiate aggressively. To a man, without question are very bad people managers. I've seen it over and over again. I did think it odd that with his background he's been put in charge of the whole shooting match. What qualifications has he got to run the administration side of the business? To run teams of people dealing with all the myriad of things it takes to run a football club. Sales people are not people people, unless they're trying to sell them something. They're generally insufferable to anyone they're not trying to sell something to. They are also generally focused on short term goals. Sure pipeline and long term strategy comes into it, but their real energy is just to get whatever deal done they're working on. They have a strange desire to be "the boss" and if they're good are often made "the boss" because the powers that be a) want to keep them sweet and b) think they'll somehow turn the whole place into a sales culture (money making) machine. But when they are made the boss they're not actually that interested in the running the business bit, they're back chasing their deals and shaking down anyone else who doesn't do the same. Essentially in my experience making a sales guy the boss is a terrible idea and always results in discontent and people leaving in droves. Heck seems to be labeled as a "branding" expert but isn't he basically a dollar chaser/sales type guy? You’ve perfectly described one of my old bosses and he was a complete clearing in the woods. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Xela said: I would qualify that I have known some really nice sales people, and some good ones at that. But (and I'm sure it's no coincidence) they don't seem to be the ones who want to be "the boss". It's like they know what they're good at and don't need the same ego trip as the other type. They also seem to make sales in different ways than just playing ultra hard ball. There must be personality traits at play here. In fact the most successful sales person I've ever met (and currently work with) is perfectly lovely. She seems to bulldoze her way into people's hearts with loveliness. I once spoke to a guy about her who had been a big man in the industry once and came to us as a retirement job. He said every salesman he'd ever worked with got quite shirty when snubbed by a target. Took it too personally and hated what they saw as rejection. After a couple of knock backs they tended to move on to the next target and talk down their contact as a dick or whatever ( Cocksucker?) whereas this lady is just unrelenting going back in again and again and again with a different tack and never taking the smile off. He said he'd never seen anything like her. One of my old bosses used to say that he could never understand why sales people should not be the top paid people and earn lots more money than the branch manager which is more of an administrative role. He's absolutely right. Edited February 15 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I thought Heck was doing an absolutely brilliant job according to some people He can both be doing a good job with the main part of his remit, and still be a dickhead... In fairness. Lol Edited February 15 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted February 15 Popular Post Share Posted February 15 (edited) 2 minutes ago, sidcow said: One of my old bosses used to say that he could never understand why sales people should not be the top paid people and earn lots more money than the branch manager which is more of an administrative role. He's absolutely right. I think your posts, and particularly this point, are accurate, but it affects far more than sales - it's very common in tech too. There's a problem that management is viewed as more senior than "doers", so people who are really great individual contributors get shoved into management as they chase promotions to earn more. See also the Peter Principle - people are promoted to their point of incompetence, we typically get promoted until we stop doing a good job, and end up one job role higher than we ought to. Edited February 15 by Davkaus 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 4 minutes ago, sidcow said: I would qualify that I have known some really nice sales people, and some good ones at that. But (and I'm sure it's no coincidence) they don't seem to be the ones who want to be "the boss". It's like they know what they're good at and don't need the same ego trip as the other type. They also seem to make sales in different ways than just playing ultra hard ball. There must be personality traits at play here. In fact the most successful sales person I've ever met (and currently work with) if perfectly lovely. She seems to bulldoze her way into people's hearts with loveliness. I once spoke to a guy about here who had been a big man in the industry once and came to us as a retirement job. He said every salesman he'd ever worked with got quite shirty when snubbed by a target. Took it too personally and hated what they saw as rejection. After a couple of knock backs they tended to move on to the next target and talk down their contact as a dick or whatever ( Cocksucker?) whereas this lady if just unrelenting going back in again and again and again with a different tack and never taking the smile off. He said he'd never seen anything like her. One of my old bosses used to say that he could never understand why sales people should not be the top paid people and earn lots more money than the branch manager which is more of an administrative role. He's absolutely right. I'm thinking he's more referencing " Sales Managers " etc as opposed to say " Sales People _. Obviously much different, but Sales Managers/Directors really can be pricks from my experience. It's all about selling sell sell, regardless of circumstances, they usually aren't in the field either , nor do they care about your circumstances, conditions or the market, all they care about is the results and numbers. Edited February 15 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 17 minutes ago, sidcow said: I mean. That's really really shoddy isn't it? Even if it's not a permanent cancellation, take the pages down and relaunch them if the stand then goes ahead later. Again, just another example of amateurish administration. Or they don't agree with his decision and have purposely left it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvilla28 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Blind Freddy can see there is a disconnection between the club and the fans and staff. There have been red flags. This has been brewing for a while. Since his been in the role nothing but negativity. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GarethRDR Posted February 15 Popular Post Share Posted February 15 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 (edited) 20 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: He can both be doing a good job with the main part of his remit, and still be a dickhead... In fairness. Lol I mean absolutely. You just can't run a large organisation and not rub some people up the wrong way. You'll have to turn someone's pet project down, make ruthless decisions that probably involve someone's job. You can't have a yes man in charge (I've also been there!) but there is a difference between being decisive and tough and being an arseholes. You've still got to inspire and win hearts and minds. The arseholes tend to move around quickly bullying people and cutting costs to get their short term goals over the line the leaving before the shit hits the fan and the inevitable collapse comes, especially as the "good" people have seen the lay of the land, left and a competitor has welcomed them with open arms. Edited February 15 by sidcow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 5 minutes ago, sidcow said: I mean absolutely. You just can't run a large organisation and not rub some people up the wrong way. My take is that despite the oodles of cash in the premier league, day to day management of football clubs is still fairly small time and amateurish. We have owners who aren't really involved day to day and were willing to replace one CEO with another one who had zero experience of the Premier League and basically gave him carte blanche to do whatever the heck he wanted. And all of the various cock ups off the pitch this season can be tranched back to one guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 29 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: He can both be doing a good job with the main part of his remit, and still be a dickhead... In fairness. Lol He can. But if any of that letter is true then he isn't doing a brilliant job. At all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 11 minutes ago, sidcow said: I mean absolutely. You just can't run a large organisation and not rub some people up the wrong way. That letter does not describe "rubbing people up the wrong way" It describes gross misconduct, breaking employment law and abuse. Amongst other things 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 47 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I thought Heck was doing an absolutely brilliant job according to some people Which people? When? Can you quote any posts saying he was doing an absolutely brilliant job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 15 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: That letter does not describe "rubbing people up the wrong way" It describes gross misconduct, breaking employment law and abuse. Amongst other things Yeah, that's why I was contrasting rubbing people up the wrong way with being an arsehole in my OP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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