lexicon Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I was referring more to the reserve or “out of favour” players than the first team or 11… I think we’ve done excellent business there… not suggesting we should transform or tear that up… we have an excellent “base” in that respect… I totally agree with the continuity point and aspect too… but for players who actually play and perform regularly and properly contribute… you have to build something and develop players for the long term - the good ones… I don’t think it’s wise or even sustainable to have players on, I dunno £90k+ regularly sitting on the bench or treatment table for a club like us and where we are at right now.. With those sort of wages, you're only really talking about Digne and Coutinho. The former plays about half the games and is a good option, the latter would likely be a hit on FFP if we tried to move him on. It's not ideal to have an impact sub on big money and if we could get enough to break even, I think it should definitely be considered, but I still think he has something to offer - and I think Emery does too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, lexicon said: He's winding down his career now - he can have a very positive impact off the bench but probably doesn't have it in him physically to be first choice in the prem anymore. Don't underestimate the value of experience. Just look at Ash last season. I don’t believe Coutinho’s experience is worth his wage, especially when he’s probably 3rd choice in his positions. Ash was the ideal senior player to have on the bench. The experience, the ability to play regularly in a verity of positions and the lower wages. In some cases he was first choice for RB. Brilliant backup. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, lexicon said: With those sort of wages, you're only really talking about Digne and Coutinho. The former plays about half the games and is a good option, the latter would likely be a hit on FFP if we tried to move him on. It's not ideal to have an impact sub on big money and if we could get enough to break even, I think it should definitely be considered, but I still think he has something to offer - and I think Emery does too. You make fair points… I guess we’ll just have to see. It’s nice to bring the expense on wages down and age of squad/players down too… We need players who are available and can make an impact… I’m tired of players on fat contracts who are on the treatment table vastly more than they are on the pitch and actually doing something… I prefer players with longevity too, that can stick around and develop with us. Not sure how much Digne is going to play once Moreno returns and his wage his exorbitant for his age, ability, and role… the longer he sticks around, the harder he will be to shift and more he will cost us. We put him on a really stupid contract! I’m not at all averse to keeping him for this season though but would be happy for a younger option to replace him and become a better player. A player that can genuinely push Moreno and eventually succeed him - these are the kind of reserves/backups I personally prefer… Digne is not on Moreno’s level, he’s a significant downgrade imo. Although they are different kinds of players… I’d like to be proved wrong, but I see Phil as a spent force and a costly error… We could bring in a much better, more exciting and capable performer in his place - someone who is available to play in games and consistently contribute with goals and assists. That’s not Coutinho. We can improve on a player like Dendoncker… A younger player with more to offer in the long run than someone like Traore too… Where we can bring in genuine competition, rather than pure reserves, I think we should go for it… Anyway, I’m not desperate to get rid of replace anyone… other than Olsen… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 20 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Saying all that… I expect improvements in Buendia and Bailey. But I wouldn’t call them mistakes… at least they’ve shown something and played games… there’s a lot more they can actually offer… They're not mistakes based on our form under Emery. Let's give the squad with improvements added a full season minus some of the absolute dribble spouted on here about some players that got us 7th from 17th after Unai took over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 29 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Not really mate, we don’t want less players - just to improve on the ones we have and maybe even find better value. Personally, I think it’s always good to be alert to opportunities to strengthen/improve and find players who can make more of a contribution and suffer from less injuries (more available)… Standing still and being happy with your lot… I don’t think it’s how successful teams operate… it’s easy to get left in the dust with that sort of “complacency”… competition is fierce… As fans, we too often hope that underperforming and injury prone players will improve and contribute more… but it’s rarely the case, more sentiment than anything… If you can get/do better, why not go for it? We haven't stood still. We’ve signed three first team player to add to a team that finished 7th. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said: I don’t believe Coutinho’s experience is worth his wage, especially when he’s probably 3rd choice in his positions. Ash was the ideal senior player to have on the bench. The experience, the ability to play regularly in a verity of positions and the lower wages. In some cases he was first choice for RB. Brilliant backup. Long way to go in the window, but if Coutinho stays I reckon it’s only because Emery wants him here and not an inability to sell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 1 minute ago, duke313 said: We haven't stood still. We’ve signed three first team player to add to a team that finished 7th. Again, I’m talking about reserve players rather than the first team or 11. The squad. There’s no standing still there, I think we’ve made excellent signings that we couldn’t have attracted before… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: They're not mistakes based on our form under Emery. Let's give the squad with improvements added a full season minus some of the absolute dribble spouted on here about some players that got us 7th from 17th after Unai took over Isn’t that, in part, what I’ve said? But we can improve in other areas and at least have a stronger bench and rotation options, more competition… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said: I don’t believe Coutinho’s experience is worth his wage, especially when he’s probably 3rd choice in his positions. Ash was the ideal senior player to have on the bench. The experience, the ability to play regularly in a verity of positions and the lower wages. In some cases he was first choice for RB. Brilliant backup. That's only a point if you believe that his wages are stopping us from buying someone else Personally I don't, same with Digne, so it doesn't bother me I'm not looking at say goncalves thinking that if we didnt have coutinho and Digne on the books we'd pay £80m for him because I don't think we would I'd rather keep coutinho drag that last bit of football out of him and bring through Ramsey or PB than sell coutinho and try and buy someone else 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSvillain Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 35 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said: We are not signing 6 more players that's insane. 2 at most. Agree. Disagree. Think we will see 3 but that will be our lot, one potentially coming very late in the window though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Just now, villa4europe said: That's only a point if you believe that his wages are stopping us from buying someone else Personally I don't, same with Digne, so it doesn't bother me I'm not looking at say goncalves thinking that if we didnt have coutinho and Digne on the books we'd pay £80m for him because I don't think we would I'd rather keep coutinho drag that last bit of football out of him and bring through Ramsey or PB than sell coutinho and try and buy someone else Respect your view, but I can’t agree with this bit. In my view, it’s kind of “sitting back” or settling for less… Selling Coutinho and bringing in a top class or even elite attacker… would make us so much stronger and more effective. Bringing in a another Diaby type signing would make us that much better… It’s fine, we just have differing views/opinions and there’s nothing wrong with that… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Just now, Jas10 said: Respect your view, but I can’t agree with this bit. In my view, it’s kind of “sitting back” or settling for less… Selling Coutinho and bringing in a top class or even elite attacker… would make us so much stronger and more effective. Bringing in a another Diaby type signing would make us that much better… It’s fine, we just have differing views/opinions and there’s nothing wrong with that… Yeah I think a top top starting number 10 replacing Buendia is the last piece for us this summer, if Diaby plays there then we need another wide man I thought you meant trying to replace coutinhos role in the squad by buying a back up AMC! That's done by a kid, we buy 1st choice and push everyone down the pecking order That coutinho makes 5 to 10 appearances in all comps next year because Ramsey steps up doesn't bother me, his wages are his wages, if we can't give him away it is what it is, I don't think the clubs spending is that hamstrung by it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Yeah I think a top top starting number 10 replacing Buendia is the last piece for us this summer, if Diaby plays there then we need another wide man I thought you meant trying to replace coutinhos role in the squad by buying a back up AMC! That's done by a kid, we buy 1st choice and push everyone down the pecking order That coutinho makes 5 to 10 appearances in all comps next year because Ramsey steps up doesn't bother me, his wages are his wages, if we can't give him away it is what it is, I don't think the clubs spending is that hamstrung by it I don’t think I was being too specific, more of a general point that we don’t need to stick with players who aren’t offering us all that much and are getting overpaid while they’re at it… we can and should bring in better players and options when and where we can. I also didn’t say that we are actually “standing still” - just, as fans, we shouldn’t just be happy with our lot and having underperforming and ineffective players sticking around. That’s all really Totally agree on bringing in better players and relegating one or two first choice players to the bench (as we have done with Diaby) but I also like bringing in young players with high potential that can contribute and stick around for the long term… they’re better options from the bench than “past it players” too, at least imo… and will eventually succeed first team players… I see and know that Unai and Monchi are working hard to improve and enhance the squad overall and getting rid of the players that will not play any part… not one question on them from me… I have full faith and trust in them… we’re in a much better place already with so much of the window left to go… I love our first team players but even then, if there’s an opportunity to enhance it and add that bit of extra quality… why would anyone be against it? Edited July 29, 2023 by Jas10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: That's only a point if you believe that his wages are stopping us from buying someone else Personally I don't, same with Digne, so it doesn't bother me I'm not looking at say goncalves thinking that if we didnt have coutinho and Digne on the books we'd pay £80m for him because I don't think we would I'd rather keep coutinho drag that last bit of football out of him and bring through Ramsey or PB than sell coutinho and try and buy someone else Digne does have something to offer, he’s a rotation player, an expensive one, but he still has a role Coutinho is behind Ramsey in the pecking order and behind some others too. His experience alone isn’t worth the wage. his wage is stoping us get players in, it’s why we selling players right now, we’re near the top of our FFP head room. If it’s possible to sell him also, we should, no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said: Digne does have something to offer, he’s a rotation player, an expensive one, but he still has a role Coutinho is behind Ramsey in the pecking order and behind some others too. His experience alone isn’t worth the wage. his wage is stoping us get players in, it’s why we selling players right now, we’re near the top of our FFP head room. If it’s possible to sell him also, we should, no doubt Imagine if we actually bought a player who is what Coutinho SHOULD have been for us… No doubt he’s flattered to deceive…injuries have curtailed him and he’s been missing more than he’s been available… we could have done with him during the run in last season but… It would make us a hell of a lot stronger and formidable… More goals, assists… more of a threat to the opposition. A proper danger… So many people are still holding on to the hope that he COULD be that player for us, but what do we have to go off of? We can replace him with much better… He’s a good lad and all that, humble and professional etc. but. none of that matters if he’s not out there on that pitch, consistently putting in positive performances and helping and elevating the team… what are we paying him for? Edited July 29, 2023 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Jas10 said: Imagine if we actually bought a player who is what Coutinho SHOULD have been for us… No doubt he’s flattered to deceive…injuries have curtailed him and he’s been missing more than he’s been available… we could have done with him during the run in last season but… It would make us a hell of a lot stronger and formidable… More goals, assists… more of a threat to the opposition. A proper danger… So many people are still holding on to the hope that he COULD be that player for us, but what do we have to go off of? We can replace him with much better… We can’t replace him unless we get rid of him, and that doesn’t appear to be happening. So he stays and hopefully contributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Jas10 said: Imagine if we actually bought a player who is what Coutinho SHOULD have been for us… No doubt he’s flattered to deceive…injuries have curtailed him and he’s been missing more than he’s been available… we could have done with him during the run in last season but… It would make us a hell of a lot stronger and formidable… More goals, assists… more of a threat to the opposition. A proper danger… So many people are still holding on to the hope that he COULD be that player for us, but what do we have to go off of? We can replace him with much better… Exactly. We can get a reliable, cheaper and useful player/s for the cost of his wage. the little he offers now just isn’t worth it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Just now, duke313 said: We can’t replace him unless we get rid of him, and that doesn’t appear to be happening. So he stays and hopefully contributes. Obvious point is obvious IF that happens, we’ll all be delighted… Is it likely? It’s his injury proneness, lack of stamina/energy that is even more of a concern than his actual performances… but, he never really brought his shooting boots with him either… Anyway, he’s just one example. If there are options to replace and upgrade on players…. we should do it… maybe everyone doesn’t agree with that, just the way I see it… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post alreadyexists Posted July 29, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2023 *tin hat on* I don’t think it’s the end for Coutinho, I think Emery can get a lot out of him and he’ll be an asset this year 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Just now, alreadyexists said: *tin hat on* I don’t think it’s the end for Coutinho, I think Emery can get a lot out of him and he’ll be an asset this year I hope so, because I believe we are unable to sell him this summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts