Steven Gerrard

[hippo]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

• Because I believe it to be the case.... but that imbalance, then spreads to so many other by products of flaws.
• Evidently not.....We have just played 4 teams above us, why should we feel we can bridge that gap with players we haven't got to bridge it....we have players who primarliy harbour the same attributes....who is our midfield general, like most decent teams have in this league?
• Ings and Watkins can't score, simple as.....thay had good chances on saturday and Ings never even connected properly with 2 ....how is that the managers fault.
• Sanson , can't bring DM tackling to the midfield....its not in his DNA
• We have just bought a full back with a reputation for attacking, on the surface I don't know why, unless its to fit in with what SG has planned, thats the only rationale, I can presume.
• Tim is a work in progress, youth academy player.....while he is the type of player we need, he is still an apprentice, in status.....He has to be free to develop and not bring in to a losing team.

I don't think he is getting a free pass, but that is quite different from having a squad, he is having problems in reconciling......He has to be given more time, and tools to do the job.

Like other fans, I have a real cringe, every time we enter the transfer market, because my doubts about our ability to sign right surface very quickly.

We have spent all of Jacks money on players, who have not, shown any signs of being an upgrade......We continue to pass over, defensive reinforcements in favour of offensive types and Still, we can't score goals with any regularity.

I still think our defending is having a knock on effect to our goal scoring, now that might see preposterous, but I believe it to be true.....These easy to score goals, we concede has wrecked the confidence of this team, and I believe it has knocked on to the attack....I know its catch 22 what comes first the chicken or the egg.......for me the first hurdle is, you have to make it difficult for the opposition and we certainly don't, we are actually benevolent.......Houses are built from the bottom up, we would do well to take heed.

This issue has been with us for some time, if we care to look hard enough.

Ok.

When can I have expect this imbalance to be resolved ? - and when can I expect to see signs of progression.

A short concise answer will suffice !

[romavillan]

4 minutes ago, duke313 said:

 

 

Completely pointless argument.  Some good players make good managers, some don't.  Some bad players make good manager, some don't.

[romavillan]

10 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Frank Lampard, Paul Scholes, Roy Keane, Gianfranco Zola

2 sides to this, who'd have thunk it?

[R.Bear]

I realise most sane people arent calling for Gerrard to be sacked but lets just remind ourselves of the managers we've appointed in just the last decade.

Alex McLeish - Horrible football, some of the worst ever seen at VP and no goals.
Paul Lambert - Loads of crap signings and woefully inconsistent performances. Set us up to get relegated.
Tim Sherwood - An embarrassing joke on the sidelines and his teams on the pitch werent much better.
Rémi Garde - A complete buffoon. Somehow made the worst team in the league even worse.
Roberto Di Matteo - An absolute disaster and signed trash.
Steve Bruce - See Alex McLeish above.
Dean Smith - A standout in a terrible list. Promoted but reached his ceiling.
 

So basically a horror story of a decade. So before everyone hounds Gerrard out, just remember what history has taught us. Gerrard's crime is what? Not finishing in a European berth? Judge him on next season.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, hippo said:

Ok.

When can I have expect this imbalance to be resolved ? - and when can I expect to see signs of progression.

A short concise answer will suffice !

You don't want much Hippo, do you?.......I am TRO not confucias.

fingers crossed.......from the summer window.

Edited April 11, 2022 by TRO

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

I realise most sane people arent calling for Gerrard to be sacked but lets just remind ourselves of the managers we've appointed in just the last decade.

Alex McLeish - Horrible football, some of the worst ever seen at VP and no goals.
Paul Lambert - Loads of crap signings and woefully inconsistent performances. Set us up to get relegated.
Tim Sherwood - An embarrassing joke on the sidelines and his teams on the pitch werent much better.
Rémi Garde - A complete buffoon. Somehow made the worst team in the league even worse.
Roberto Di Matteo - An absolute disaster and signed trash.
Steve Bruce - See Alex McLeish above.
Dean Smith - A standout in a terrible list. Promoted but reached his ceiling.
 

So basically a horror story of a decade. So before everyone hounds Gerrard out, just remember what history has taught us. Gerrard's crime is what? Not finishing in a European berth? Judge him on next season.

Agree terrible appointments.

I was hoping with NSWE those sort of appointments were behind us though.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

24 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

Zidane, Guardiola, Simeone, Luis Enrique, Xavi...

 

18 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Ancelotti, Conte, Inzaghi, Mancini, Cruyff...

But most importantly....

Edited April 11, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[hippo]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

fingers crossed.......from the summer window.

Good times then .

I will await the disclaimers .

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

14 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Completely pointless argument.  Some good players make good managers, some don't.  Some bad players make good manager, some don't.

You won't get anywhere with such logical nuance though...

Edited April 11, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

I realise most sane people arent calling for Gerrard to be sacked but lets just remind ourselves of the managers we've appointed in just the last decade.

Alex McLeish - Horrible football, some of the worst ever seen at VP and no goals.
Paul Lambert - Loads of crap signings and woefully inconsistent performances. Set us up to get relegated.
Tim Sherwood - An embarrassing joke on the sidelines and his teams on the pitch werent much better.
Rémi Garde - A complete buffoon. Somehow made the worst team in the league even worse.
Roberto Di Matteo - An absolute disaster and signed trash.
Steve Bruce - See Alex McLeish above.
Dean Smith - A standout in a terrible list. Promoted but reached his ceiling.
 

So basically a horror story of a decade. So before everyone hounds Gerrard out, just remember what history has taught us. Gerrard's crime is what? Not finishing in a European berth? Judge him on next season.

I get all that, and and I don't disagree......but the club recruitment has been iffy too, over that period of time.

I would be interested to know what the ratio is between good a bad signings, if in fact that could be computed with any accuracy.

I am still dubious of our recruitment.....but hoping they get it right this summer.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, hippo said:

Good times then .

I will await the disclaimers .

hopefully, you won't have to.

[villa4europe]

13 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

Dean Smith - A standout in a terrible list. Promoted but reached his ceiling.
So basically a horror story of a decade. So before everyone hounds Gerrard out, just remember what history has taught us. Gerrard's crime is what? Not finishing in a European berth? Judge him on next season.

for me personally based on what I've seen so far - not having a higher ceiling than the one smith apparently reached

[BOF]

He still has the leeway of time and he will get a pre-season which he badly needs and a summer window.  But it looks like he has made it clear which hill he is prepared to die on. That is the 433 hill. He's using a Liverpool/Rangers system in a team that don't have the quality to play it effectively enough to win regularly. The Liverpool comparison is obvious, and Rangers had 6 tough games a season and were basically the Liverpool/city of that league. And from talking to a Rangers fan over the weekend, that was the criticism even while he was up there. He didn't have a plan B. He'll need much better players in some positions next season. We're like Henry Wadsworth's little girl at the moment.  When we're good, we're very very good but when we're bad we're horrid. No middle ground.

I think and hope he will be a success. I think he has what it takes. But he has shown a slightly surprising reluctance to change things when they're not going well.  It may be a rock solid belief that what he's doing is the right way to do things. Or in the worst case, it may be a character flaw of not being able to see and/or change things effectively.  Time will tell.  One thing's for sure. We're certainly not dull (most of the time).

[duke313]

3 minutes ago, BOF said:

He still has the leeway of time and he will get a pre-season which he badly needs and a summer window.  But it looks like he has made it clear which hill he is prepared to die on. That is the 433 hill. He's using a Liverpool/Rangers system in a team that don't have the quality to play it effectively enough to win regularly. The Liverpool comparison is obvious, and Rangers had 6 tough games a season and were basically the Liverpool/city of that league. And from talking to a Rangers fan over the weekend, that was the criticism even while he was up there. He didn't have a plan B. He'll need much better players in some positions next season. We're like Henry Wadsworth's little girl at the moment.  When we're good, we're very very good but when we're bad we're horrid. No middle ground.

I think and hope he will be a success. I think he has what it takes. But he has shown a slightly surprising reluctance to change things when they're not going well.  It may be a rock solid belief that what he's doing is the right way to do things. Or in the worst case, it may be a character flaw of not being able to see and/or change things effectively.  Time will tell.  One thing's for sure. We're certainly not dull (most of the time).

That's my biggest gripe with him, his reluctance to change things when they aren't working and persisting with the narrow 433 in some game that it clearly wasn't working.  Especially when we are over encumbered with wingers.  

[a m ole]

7 minutes ago, BOF said:

He still has the leeway of time and he will get a pre-season which he badly needs and a summer window.  But it looks like he has made it clear which hill he is prepared to die on. That is the 433 hill. He's using a Liverpool/Rangers system in a team that don't have the quality to play it effectively enough to win regularly. The Liverpool comparison is obvious, and Rangers had 6 tough games a season and were basically the Liverpool/city of that league. And from talking to a Rangers fan over the weekend, that was the criticism even while he was up there. He didn't have a plan B. He'll need much better players in some positions next season. We're like Henry Wadsworth's little girl at the moment.  When we're good, we're very very good but when we're bad we're horrid. No middle ground.

I think and hope he will be a success. I think he has what it takes. But he has shown a slightly surprising reluctance to change things when they're not going well.  It may be a rock solid belief that what he's doing is the right way to do things. Or in the worst case, it may be a character flaw of not being able to see and/or change things effectively.  Time will tell.  One thing's for sure. We're certainly not dull (most of the time).

We’re in trouble if the only solution (and I know you’re not saying this) is ‘buy much better players’

[FLVillan]

On 09/04/2022 at 18:45, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I know sounds " crazy ".... But hear me out.

What if we buy better players in key areas... And actually get better  ( Stranger things have happened )

Meanihg no matter who the Manager is, they will have better players.

He bought Chambers for 1.5 mill and there was a mini meltdown about him, yet now most are calling for him to start. Lol

Well said.  If we buy better players he will likely be labeled a "chequebook manager" by some, but BFR was labeled the same and he got us to our best league position and played some of the best football I'd seen at the Villa since the 1977-82 period. BFR brought in a shed load of new players and was famously quoted as saying when he took over from Venglos that we'd have been bang in trouble if we hadn't bought the likes of Richardson, Houghton, Staunton, Atkinson, Regis, Saunders, Parker, Barrett, Teale....

A manager saying that players need to perform to keep their place is hardly controversial.  And quite frankly, if said players are negatively affected by that then they are simply reinforcing the point that they don't have the required skillset or mentality to thrive at a higher level.  If that were me as a player my reaction would have been, "I'll show him I'm good enough." 

[R.Bear]

Our results/performances havent been too dissimilar to Dean Smith's in the sense that when we play well, we look like world beaters but then can also serve up some real shockers. Every team can be Jekyll and Hyde but we do it in extremes. In Gerrard's defence, that's the first thrashing we've had under him and it could and should have gone differently. In fairness though, losing to Spurs whether its 1-0 or 4-0 doesnt dictate the season. As long as we keep beating teams we should beat and compete against the top teams then thats all you can do. I expect us to beat Norwich, Burnley and Palace at home which will sit us nicely in mid-table, maybe even sneak into the top 10 with other results and that's more than good enough for this season.

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

Our results/performances havent been too dissimilar to Dean Smith's in the sense that when we play well, we look like world beaters but then can also serve up some real shockers. Every team can be Jekyll and Hyde but we do it in extremes. In Gerrard's defence, that's the first thrashing we've had under him and it could and should have gone differently. In fairness though, losing to Spurs whether its 1-0 or 4-0 doesnt dictate the season. As long as we keep beating teams we should beat and compete against the top teams then thats all you can do. I expect us to beat Norwich, Burnley and Palace at home which will sit us nicely in mid-table, maybe even sneak into the top 10 with other results and that's more than good enough for this season.

You say this but can you ever see us getting a 7-2 against a top team with Gerrard at the helm? I can't. He doesn't elevate players IMO. 

[R.Bear]

1 minute ago, lexicon said:

You say this but can you ever see us getting a 7-2 against a top team with Gerrard at the helm? I can't.

Using that game to make any point is silly. It was a freak game with freaky goals and a freak result. Great but that will likely never happen again to a team like Liverpool by anyone.

Gerrard had some great results in Europe for Rangers, maybe not thrashings but great results all the same.

[VillaParkAvenue]

Just now, lexicon said:

You say this but can you ever see us getting a 7-2 against a top team with Gerrard at the helm? I can't. He doesn't elevate players IMO. 

If we had the same amount of luck against Spurs as we had in the 7-2 against Liverpool, we could have won by similar numbers. In the Liverpool game, 3 or 4 of our goals were crazy deflections. Against Spurs our luck was 180 degrees the opposite.