HKP90 Posted November 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 17, 2021 Just now, TRO said: The Kamara one is interesting to me.....He might not be technically any better than what we have, but he has what Gerrard wants to instill in to us......Viera has done it at Palace...as has moyes at West ham. Its Steel, we are missing, not ballers. Agreed. We have talent, just no ball winners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Sometimes that's all you need. JV that is aimed at me.....I am not comparing him with Ron Saunders, carte Blanche ,just the odd one or two attributes.....but taking it literally, is what some folk do....but its their problem not mine. He doesn't want Gerrard anyway, so it his burden to deal with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Agreed. We have talent, just no ball winners. Nakamba has better defensive stats than Kamara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, TRO said: it also depends on the type of incident....A bollocking can have a very focusing affect, but it depends how its delivered.....Good managers don't shout or berate anyway, they just don't tolerate sub standard behaviour or performance...and act accordingly. I was never shouted at either in my work, but if I did wrong, I wouldn't expect a cream cake either.....call me old fashioned, but I don't subscribe to too much molly-coddling...Its a mans environment and should be treated a such. I have experienced lenient managers who turn a blind eye.....and its great to work for them, but the results end up being shite. Discipline, drive and a willingness to succeed is paramount in any organisation....football is no exception.......reminders to staff, are not often welcome, by the recipient....but as they say " You have to be cruel, to be kind" Nobody's talking about molly-coddling here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, lexicon said: Nobody's talking about molly-coddling here. No, maybe Implying it. Edited November 17, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Jas10 said: It's almost as if the players are expected to act like professionals and put 100% effort into the job that they are paid a shitload of money to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, 7392craig said: That’s true. I hope he doesn’t end up too strict and alienating the players. But if it’s the case that someone isn’t putting in the required effort, I don’t believe an arm round the shoulder is the best course of action. As you say, it depends on the player I guess. It depends on the reason behind their lack of effort and also who they are as a person. Good management is about treating people accordingly IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 minute ago, TRO said: No, maybe Implying it. Nope. Not giving someone a bollocking does not equal molly-coddling. There's a massive spectrum in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Kamara didn’t really seem a ball winner from what I saw yesterday. More of a link up player. He seemed quite intelligent with his movement albeit looked quite casual. I could see him getting the infamous lazy tag if he ever came to Villa. He's more of a Westwood player than a Roy Keene one. He's OK but I hope we look at much, much better ones than him for the starting 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 quick and classy from The Athletic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, lexicon said: Nope. Not giving someone a bollocking does not equal molly-coddling. There's a massive spectrum in between. Not for me there isn't, it harbours a similar affect for me. sure you might identify a training need, but I don't think we are talking about that....I guess it depends how many times the same thing has been addressed too....I am digressing now. I still think a steely approach is what we needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, TRO said: JV that is aimed at me.....I am not comparing him with Ron Saunders, carte Blanche ,just the odd one or two attributes.....but taking it literally, is what some folk do....but its their problem not mine. He doesn't want Gerrard anyway, so it his burden to deal with. Not up to speed on the latest Villa Talk " beefs " mate. Just thought it was funny. lol No issues here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted November 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, jacketspuds said: It's almost as if the players are expected to act like professionals and put 100% effort into the job that they are paid a shitload of money to do. But if there is no trust in those players to also do their job professionally, why would those players trust and respect the management? Are we saying that they are unprofessional because they are getting to 120 bpm not 130 bpm in training? If I have messed up at my work, firstly I would always admit it, (because that shows that I'm not a prick who avoids responsibility), but assuming I didn't and the management needed to give me a nudge (back when I had a manager), I would expect to be pulled aside and had a word with, not bollocked in front of my colleagues. No way I'd stay at a company where management did that. It's mega unprofessional, and it doesn't work. You don't want players working as hard as they need to to avoid a bollocking, you want players working as hard as they can because they buy into what you are trying to do. You know what- pit the latter against the former, and the invested ones will win 100 times out of 100. By the way I'm not saying any of this is what is happening. There are 'digs' and there are 'DIGS'. A shout of 'come on push yourself' occasionally is not a bollocking in my book, just encouragement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 minute ago, TRO said: Not for me there isn't, it harbours a similar affect for me. sure you might identify a training need, but I don't think we are talking about that....I guess it depends how many times the same thing has been addressed too....I am digressing now. I still think a steely approach is what we needed. I'd much prefer a multi-faceted to a one-dimensional approach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, HKP90 said: But if there is no trust in those players to also do their job professionally, why would those players trust and respect the management? Are we saying that they are unprofessional because they are getting to 120 bpm not 130 bpm in training? If I have messed up at my work, firstly I would always admit it, (because that shows that I'm not a prick who avoids responsibility), but assuming I didn't and the management needed to give me a nudge (back when I had a manager), I would expect to be pulled aside and had a word with, not bollocked in front of my colleagues. No way I'd stay at a company where management did that. It's mega unprofessional, and it doesn't work. You don't want players working as hard as they need to to avoid a bollocking, you want players working as hard as they can because they buy into what you are trying to do. You know what- pit the latter against the former, and the invested ones will win 100 times out of 100. By the way I'm not saying any of this is what is happening. There are 'digs' and there are 'DIGS'. A shout of 'come on push yourself' occasionally is not a bollocking in my book, just encouragement. I reckon it’s just a case of they haven’t had to train as hard as what Gerrard wants. So it’s case of the players adapting. It doesn’t mean Gerrards techniques are better than Smiths because he may demand more intensity in training. It’s just could be a different approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 20 minutes ago, jacketspuds said: It's almost as if the players are expected to act like professionals and put 100% effort into the job that they are paid a shitload of money to do. They take advantage of goodwill, like many do....Thats why strong management has to take over. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingsombrero Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Jas10 said: Well this all sounds very familiar. When is he getting his gilet? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 45 minutes ago, Zatman said: If I see him compared to Ron Saunders one more time I might scream. **** me the only thing they have in common is they are scousers. Wasn't Saunders from the Wirral? Is that technically just outside of Liverpool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, flamingsombrero said: Well this all sounds very familiar. When is he getting his gilet? I know you’re joking but I heard Sherwood really didn’t have a clue what he was doing in training. This came from a member of the back room staff. They said it was quite comical at times. I don’t get that impression from Gerrard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, lexicon said: I'd much prefer a multi-faceted to a one-dimensional approach. I am not saying any different, but we was talking about one aspect. Management by definition is multi- faceted, it cannot be one dimensional, The subject is a broad church of factors. its a subject you could talk about for hours, one aspect, is what it is, one aspect. I am not even saying, strong management equals not approachable, because thats a myth too. What I am suggesting as ONE example ,is turning a blind eye, when an opportunity exists to exert/demonstrate authority. Its not a wise move in my book....we have to confront, even if we are not confrontational by nature.....because our subordinates will notice and have us on trial, whether we like that or not, thats where leadership begins. Edited November 17, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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