The manager situation

[IrishVilla10]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Then why are you coming on here?

I'm not paid to find and sign a manager, so I have no idea. But we can't keep waiting for this turnaround every season, we will never progress any further.

This is what it boils down to, if people don’t want to see that for themselves then that’s on them 

[GingerCollins29]

Am i the only one worried that we sack smith, then throw all our eggs into the basket of a top class manager who is unobtainable, falling flat on our arse in negotiations ala ESR/JWP, then end up with frank lampard

[tinker]

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Then why are you coming on here?

I'm not paid to find and sign a manager, so I have no idea. But we can't keep waiting for this turnaround every season, we will never progress any further.

To read the crap you post lol

[IrishVilla10]

1 minute ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Am i the only one worried that we sack smith, then throw all our eggs into the basket of a top class manager who is unobtainable, falling flat on our arse in negotiations ala ESR/JWP, then end up with frank lampard

My feeling is that we won’t sack smith without their being someone lined up 

[kidlewis]

1 minute ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Am i the only one worried that we sack smith, then throw all our eggs into the basket of a top class manager who is unobtainable, falling flat on our arse in negotiations ala ESR/JWP, then end up with frank lampard

Yup, would be embarrassing tbh. 
 

id feel like Smith would be cheated out if we replaced him with someone like that. 
 

we’d barely improve imo

[Tayls]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

It is an overreaction imo.  I know the stats and the 2021 stats and the reasons to go with it.  We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Give me the next Klopp or Guardiola and I’ll go with the change otherwise I’ll stick with Smith and ride out this current poor form, thanks.

It’s not ‘poor form’ though… it’s just ‘poor’. We are a dreadful footballing side… and have been for quite a while now. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Which teams in the top 10 last season had long serving managers? Liverpool and City. That even extends to the year before when you have Dyche and wilder included. The time of long serving managers has gone. Wilders actually a great example. You could argue he shouldn’t have been sacked, or maybe he reached his potential with the squad. And Sheffield wanted to progress. If you’d rather go down with Smith, or maybe even finish bottom half than try and bring someone in who could do a better job then fair enough 

And how is that working out for teams? Everton, Spurs, Arsenal to name just a few just can’t stabilise.  Chelsea can with the constant change of managers because they spend big money but clubs that stick with managers can generally build a bit more success for whatever level they are at.

I think we stick with Smith, probably end up midtable and that’ll be that and then stick with Smith to progress further next season.

[QldVilla]

24 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

People want Smith out because we have been shyte for a year and he is dragging us into a relegation battle. These people want a manager that will be better than Smith and stop the rot. It is not the the responsibility of fans to select the next manager

We haven't been shite for a year, it's revisionist history.

We went through a COVID outbreak early in the year, no one knows, except for the players and coaching staff how that impacted on their performance while recovering and how long it took to recover.

The issue in the second half of the season was we weren't scoring enough goals, defensively we were still very good and we were mostly without Grealish, our most important attacking output. If Grealish wasn't injured, we probably would have had another 8-10 points.

The current issues have nothing to do with the second half of last season. The most important player left, sucked the oxygen out of the club and left a massive hole which none of the current players have been able to step into. Half the coaching team left, key players/signings have been injured and not match fit, pre-season was diminished through cancelled matches and COVID etc etc.

To think all of these issues don't impact on game day is naive at best.

Something broke after the Wolves game, the players don't appear to be listening and their energy levels are poor at the beginning of matches.

This also isn't a defense of Smith. He said he knew the coaches were leaving, he obviously knew Grealish was leaving and with COVID, should have had alternative plans in place for pre-season. But none of that has the players showing no energy in the first half of matches and why they have the appearance of not seeming to care.

Something has broken and I don't believe it can be fixed.

 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Tayls said:

It’s not ‘poor form’ though… it’s just ‘poor’. We are a dreadful footballing side… and have been for quite a while now. 

A month ago people were on a high after beating Man U and Everton, a month later the world is ending! Hence why I’ve been off platform for a couple of weeks and why I’ll probably go off again after tonight, probably for longer.

[Peter Griffin]

46 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Didn't you want to get rid of Smith before this 5 game run and the "rot" when we were in midtable? If I recall, European football was quite important at the time.

I am not sure where u got that idea, I have been a long time supporter of Smith. However, I have questioned his ability to continue to bring us forward as our football and results have been very bad this year. Maybe you are falling into the trap many on the internet do in looking for and trying to categories people into extremes. Just because I have questioned his ability does not mean I want him sacked or don't like the guy. However, this season is just getting worse and worse now and Dean is dragging us into a relegation battle and I really do not want the risk of us going down this season. I believe that changing manager now would reduce that risk.

I am not sure what your reference to European football is about. I have stated many times that I do not expect it this season however I believe it is important for the future. I have also said that I believe we should be up there competing for a Europa spot this season but not actually attaining it.

[IrishVilla10]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

And how is that working out for teams? Everton, Spurs, Arsenal to name just a few just can’t stabilise.  Chelsea can with the constant change of managers because they spend big money but clubs that stick with managers can generally build a bit more success for whatever level they are at.

I think we stick with Smith, probably end up midtable and that’ll be that and then stick with Smith to progress further next season.

Arsenal have finished 8th two seasons in a row, and now look a lot more solid. Spurs finished 7th last season and will progress again with appointing conte. Everton we’re unlucky Ancelotti went back to Madrid but still finished top half. Our owners have made it clear we want to be fighting for Europe, smith is not capable of it. You’ve still not given any reason as to why you think we can progress to those levels with smith. If you’re happy bottom half then that’s fine, but that’s not where we’ve been told we’re aiming for. 

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Am i the only one worried that we sack smith, then throw all our eggs into the basket of a top class manager who is unobtainable, falling flat on our arse in negotiations ala ESR/JWP, then end up with frank lampard

Yep I agree.  As I’ve said, I’m still in the Smith stays column but the club will do what it will do.  I do worry about what you have said.  I’m not convinced Smith should go anyway, I’m even more convinced we won’t get somebody better.

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

A month ago people were on a high after beating Man U and Everton, a month later the world is ending! Hence why I’ve been off platform for a couple of weeks and why I’ll probably go off again after tonight, probably for longer.

People were on a high because we won the games. Many commented we were poor against Everton and the high was very much aimed at Bailey's unbelievable cameo. We were lucky Konsa wasn't sent off at 0-0, then it could have been a very different result. And beating Man U at O/T was a huge high because is so rarely happens. 

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Yep I agree.  As I’ve said, I’m still in the Smith stays column but the club will do what it will do.  I do worry about what you have said.  I’m not convinced Smith should go anyway, I’m even more convinced we won’t get somebody better.

Your thinking with your heart, not your head. Like you want to keep him cause you really don't want to see the Villa without him. Not sacking him and continuing this poor form just because we may not get someone better is poor justification  for him to stay.

I certainly hope the board don't think this way.

[Keyblade]

6 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I am not sure where u got that idea, I have been a long time supporter of Smith. However, I have questioned his ability to continue to bring us forward as our football and results have been very bad this year. Maybe you are falling into the trap many on the internet do in looking for and trying to categories people into extremes. Just because I have questioned his ability does not mean I want him sacked or don't like the guy. However, this season is just getting worse and worse now and Dean is dragging us into a relegation battle and I really do not want the risk of us going down this season. I believe that changing manager now would reduce that risk.

I am not sure what your reference to European football is about. I have stated many times that I do not expect it this season however I believe it is important for the future. I have also said that I believe we should be up there competing for a Europa spot this season but not actually attaining it.

I'm not categorizing a group of people, I'm just talking about you specifically. It seemed like you wanted to replace him well before this rapid descent, and if I'm remembering that wrong that I apologize.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Arsenal have finished 8th two seasons in a row, and now look a lot more solid. Spurs finished 7th last season and will progress again with appointing conte. Everton we’re unlucky Ancelotti went back to Madrid but still finished top half. Our owners have made it clear we want to be fighting for Europe, smith is not capable of it. You’ve still not given any reason as to why you think we can progress to those levels with smith. If you’re happy bottom half then that’s fine, but that’s not where we’ve been told we’re aiming for. 

So is 8th good for Arsenal? I’m not sure their fans would agree or their history.  Spurs were in the Champions League final a couple of seasons ago and 7th was poor for them on the back of where they were.  They tried for a top class manager ended up with 6th choice Nuno for a third of the season.  Yes now they have Conte.

I think Smith keeps progressing us season after season.  Yes we take two steps forward followed by one step back and we are in that one step back phase and some fans wet the bed last time we were here.  He keeps learning, he’s only just starting to get his squad fit.  We are incredibly poor at the moment, no doubt about that but he’s turned it around before and I believe he’ll do it again.

I’m not happy bottom half, you are assuming that’s where we’ll end up, you’re assuming this form continues throughout the season. Like most on this forum at the start of the season I said we’ll end up between 8th and 12th this season, and I still think we will end up there under Smith.

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

So is 8th good for Arsenal? I’m not sure their fans would agree or their history.  Spurs were in the Champions League final a couple of seasons ago and 7th was poor for them on the back of where they were.  They tried for a top class manager ended up with 6th choice Nuno for a third of the season.  Yes now they have Conte.

I think Smith keeps progressing us season after season.  Yes we take two steps forward followed by one step back and we are in that one step back phase and some fans wet the bed last time we were here.  He keeps learning, he’s only just starting to get his squad fit.  We are incredibly poor at the moment, no doubt about that but he’s turned it around before and I believe he’ll do it again.

I’m not happy bottom half, you are assuming that’s where we’ll end up, you’re assuming this form continues throughout the season. Like most on this forum at the start of the season I said we’ll end up between 8th and 12th this season, and I still think we will end up there under Smith.

We can't continue to have a poor run every season Nick, it's losing us valuable points. Points that may have got us European football last season. Somethings gotta change, an it always comes back to the manager going unfortunately.

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Your thinking with your heart, not your head. Like you want to keep him cause you really don't want to see the Villa without him. Not sacking him and continuing this poor form just because we may not get someone better is poor justification  for him to stay.

I certainly hope the board don't think this way.

I’m honestly not thinking with my heart. I actually don’t care he’s a Villa fan, I like it but it doesn’t sway me, just like I’m not bothered if our players are from the youth team or brought in.  That has never bothered me like some other fans.  I think he has the skills to turn this around, I really do.  I also don’t think you should change unless you definitely know you can get somebody better…it would be foolish to sack him and not know you have the suitable replacement like Spurs screwed up in the summer.

If the board find and secure and line up somebody better than Smith then fine before they sack him.  If the board sack him with no replacement lined up them that is foolish imo and I certainly hope the board don’t think this way.

[IrishVilla10]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

So is 8th good for Arsenal? I’m not sure their fans would agree or their history.  Spurs were in the Champions League final a couple of seasons ago and 7th was poor for them on the back of where they were.  They tried for a top class manager ended up with 6th choice Nuno for a third of the season.  Yes now they have Conte.

I think Smith keeps progressing us season after season.  Yes we take two steps forward followed by one step back and we are in that one step back phase and some fans wet the bed last time we were here.  He keeps learning, he’s only just starting to get his squad fit.  We are incredibly poor at the moment, no doubt about that but he’s turned it around before and I believe he’ll do it again.

I’m not happy bottom half, you are assuming that’s where we’ll end up, you’re assuming this form continues throughout the season. Like most on this forum at the start of the season I said we’ll end up between 8th and 12th this season, and I still think we will end up there under Smith.

You asked if they’d stabilised. Arsenal after losing wenger were always going to dip, that was inevitable. Now they look to be progressing.  Yes spurs were in the champions league final but the manager who got them there got sacked (they were 14th when Jose took over) under poch. Jose had a huge job on his hands and got them to a final in the process. 
 

Dean has had to turn it around three seasons in a row now, that’s the difference. That’s where the ship has sailed. We will not progress when we can’t perform for a full season. We can blame fitness or injuries or whatever you want but the facts are there, we aren’t good enough. 

Im assuming it continues this season as the stats show it’s been the case for the full year, that’s all. 
 
We looked a very decent side last year and managed 11th, 12th this year will be some reach. 

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

I’m honestly not thinking with my heart. I actually don’t care he’s a Villa fan, I like it but it doesn’t sway me, just like I’m not bothered if our players are from the youth team or brought in.  That has never bothered me like some other fans.  I think he has the skills to turn this around, I really do.  I also don’t think you should change unless you definitely know you can get somebody better…it would be foolish to sack him and not know you have the suitable replacement like Spurs screwed up in the summer.

If the board find and secure and line up somebody better than Smith then fine before they sack him.  If the board sack him with no replacement lined up them that is foolish imo and I certainly hope the board don’t think this way.

This is fine and I agree. But your also saying you believe he will turn it around, an state this as a reason to keep him on.