Increasing Club Revenue

[briny_ear]

Well, this thread has left me feeling a bit depressed.

[thabucks]

Orascom Construction For shirt sponsors & fortress investments as sleeve sponsor - £30mill per year … If usmanov can pump money into Everton then why cannot our owners? 

Edited August 11, 2021 by thabucks

[QldVilla]

2 hours ago, Czarnikjak said:

Indeed, our commercial deals reflect our current reputation and exposure around the world. 

Coming back from the championship we are midtable at best in this respect.

The reason why Everton are getting £9m and we are getting £6m from Cazzoo is reputation and worldwide following.

See the real-time Social media followers numbers, good approximation of the above.

https://footballpredictions.net/social-rating/england/premier-league

One of the reasons why Chelsea are getting x10 commercial revenue to us is that they have x10 number of fans around the world.

Only through the on pitch success we will increase our worldwide recognition and commercial revenue will follow.

I don’t necessarily agree with this. There’s a lot of Villa fans around the world and always been a lot in Australia.

The club hasn’t done anything to engage with its world wide base, ever. We’ve had Manure, Everton, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City out here in the past few years before COVID, City even bought a club in Melbourne.

My primary schools football jersey was based on Villa and dated back to the 1950’s there’s also a club in Bundaberg called Brothers Aston Villa which dates back to the 1960’s.

I look at the Championship play off and there was no way as a fan from outside of England to buy a ticket for the final through the club. It was only because I was able to buy a ticket through the Wembley club that I was able to go to the game and a 24hr flight.

The club needs to look at ways to engage with its fans outside of England because it’s mostly all one direction at the moment.

[The Fun Factory]

We have been spectacularly mis managed for years. If we can fulfil to our actual potential we should be one of the top 6 biggest clubs in Engand given support, location, history blah blah.

Its just a shame that our owners only bought us in 2018 as we have had a huge amount of catching up to do.

[TrentVilla]

 

Interesting that someone started this thread, I came to do the same because for a couple of different reasons this has been on my mind the last 24 hours.

The first reason was a conversation on Twitter yesterday, which prompted a couple of emotive reactions which I understand, in relation to ST/ticket prices.

I know many hope or even expect the club to announce a ground expansion, it is clear we currently would have the demand to warrant it. But a ground expansion comes at significant capital expenditure and impacts on other aspects of the club, currently the clubs focus is on spending on the playing squads at all levels and their facilities. I'm pleased that is their focus rather than expansion because due to FFP the ability to do both, no matter how rich they are is limited.

But and here is the bit people won't like.... we have I think to expect ticket prices to rise. We are at the cheaper end of the spectrum despite our progress on the pitch and investment in the squad. That can't continue, or rather it can't be allowed to continue by Purslow.

We currently have 30k ST holders, our self imposed capacity, then a further 15k+ on the waiting list against a capacity of 42k or 39k if you discount away seats.

It is therefore I think inevitable that they will look to capitalise on that demand and increase matchday revenue before even considering expansion. Put simply, make more from the seats we have before creating more. You could argue that they did that already this summer with no early bird.

Then today we have the Socios crypto announcement which leaves me quite uneasy, I dislike the nature of it, a wolf in sheep clothing pretending to be for the fans but in reality their to fleece them. I feel particularly wary of it given the unpredictable and insecure nature of crypo currencies which is in effect what Socios is although it tries to hide it. 

But my comments here aren't really specifically about either of those things, they are more general about the expectations we all have.

The people running our club from the owners down are highly intelligent, shrewd, business people. They aren't fans, they aren't benefactors, they aren't washing cash from wherever or a state trying to wash its image. They are business people, they run the club as a business and they are here to be successful on and off the pitch.

So far they've thrown huge amounts of money at the club but that can't and won't continue indefinatly it can't. They will continue to invest in their asset I'm sure but the club has to be better commercially, it has to try and close the gap on turnover, on matchday revenue and in corporate deals such as Socios.

We had Lerner and Xia's car crashes which show why this is so important because in both instances the money ran out and we as fans paid the price. So far we've been spoilt by the current owners but as a fan base we are all going to have to accept that if the club wants to compete, really compete, then it will have to be at all levels and not just on the pitch. We have to compete commercially, it is inevitable that as fans not consumers we won't like that but I think we have to be mature enough to accept it.

That doesn't mean we have to accept everything or even willingly part with our cash for everything but we do have to start adjusting our collective mindsets a little.

[Peter Griffin]

5 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I'm pleased that is their focus rather than expansion because due to FFP the ability to do both, no matter how rich they are is limited.

Money spent on the stadium or improving facilities is exempt from FFP calculations. NSWE can spend as much as they want to expanding Villa Park.

[The Fun Factory]

Purslow has said that ticket price rises are currently not part of the plan. Its what about 20% of the revenue if that? Why strangle the demand at the  moment. I would like to give the waiting list a few years to see how strong that actually is first before hiking up prices. I am taking the 13,000 with a pinch of salt. 

 Birmingham is not a rich city like London. Its probably closer to northern provincial cities.

Any redevelopment of VP will I presume contain more corporate, or more controversially,  introduce more corporate in existing stands such as Doug Ellis.

[TrentVilla]

8 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Money spent on the stadium or improving facilities is exempt from FFP calculations. NSWE can spend as much as they want to expanding Villa Park.

Ah, didn’t know that.

[hippo]

18 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

Interesting that someone started this thread, I came to do the same because for a couple of different reasons this has been on my mind the last 24 hours.

The first reason was a conversation on Twitter yesterday, which prompted a couple of emotive reactions which I understand, in relation to ST/ticket prices.

I know many hope or even expect the club to announce a ground expansion, it is clear we currently would have the demand to warrant it. But a ground expansion comes at significant capital expenditure and impacts on other aspects of the club, currently the clubs focus is on spending on the playing squads at all levels and their facilities. I'm pleased that is their focus rather than expansion because due to FFP the ability to do both, no matter how rich they are is limited.

But and here is the bit people won't like.... we have I think to expect ticket prices to rise. We are at the cheaper end of the spectrum despite our progress on the pitch and investment in the squad. That can't continue, or rather it can't be allowed to continue by Purslow.

We currently have 30k ST holders, our self imposed capacity, then a further 15k+ on the waiting list against a capacity of 42k or 39k if you discount away seats.

It is therefore I think inevitable that they will look to capitalise on that demand and increase matchday revenue before even considering expansion. Put simply, make more from the seats we have before creating more. You could argue that they did that already this summer with no early bird.

Then today we have the Socios crypto announcement which leaves me quite uneasy, I dislike the nature of it, a wolf in sheep clothing pretending to be for the fans but in reality their to fleece them. I feel particularly wary of it given the unpredictable and insecure nature of crypo currencies which is in effect what Socios is although it tries to hide it. 

But my comments here aren't really specifically about either of those things, they are more general about the expectations we all have.

The people running our club from the owners down are highly intelligent, shrewd, business people. They aren't fans, they aren't benefactors, they aren't washing cash from wherever or a state trying to wash its image. They are business people, they run the club as a business and they are here to be successful on and off the pitch.

So far they've thrown huge amounts of money at the club but that can't and won't continue indefinatly it can't. They will continue to invest in their asset I'm sure but the club has to be better commercially, it has to try and close the gap on turnover, on matchday revenue and in corporate deals such as Socios.

We had Lerner and Xia's car crashes which show why this is so important because in both instances the money ran out and we as fans paid the price. So far we've been spoilt by the current owners but as a fan base we are all going to have to accept that if the club wants to compete, really compete, then it will have to be at all levels and not just on the pitch. We have to compete commercially, it is inevitable that as fans not consumers we won't like that but I think we have to be mature enough to accept it.

That doesn't mean we have to accept everything or even willingly part with our cash for everything but we do have to start adjusting our collective mindsets a little.

Sort of why of I started the thread. We see at many clubs new owners come in pump in some cash (Huge amounts in our case) - Initially there is a lot of improvement quite quickly. But then once you get to about 8th position - you have to throw even more money for very little improvement - this is the point where Lerner baulked. 

I'm not sure - but I thought I heard the financial brakes had gone at wolves ? - after a few years of considerable spending.

It would be nice to think that NSWE would continue to underwrite our losses and make £100m+  available for player purchases each summer. I hope I am wrong but somewhere there must be a cut off point ? .  You can see the contingency plan with all the teenagers we are snapping up - the hope of someone comparable jack coming through.

Not sure about a hike in season ticket prices - Mine was approx. £600 - say they put it up over the next few years to £900 - how much extra revenue would that raise  ? without even factoring in those that then decide to pick matches.

Cloud thinking - but the only way forward I could see would be to make VP a 24/7 sporting/Entertainment/Corporate location - possibly launching a chain product from that. Not simple and the location goes against that

Edited August 11, 2021 by hippo

[TrentVilla]

51 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Purslow has said that ticket price rises are currently not part of the plan. Its what about 20% of the revenue if that? Why strangle the demand at the  moment. I would like to give the waiting list a few years to see how strong that actually is first before hiking up prices. I am taking the 13,000 with a pinch of salt. 

 Birmingham is not a rich city like London. Its probably closer to northern provincial cities.

Any redevelopment of VP will I presume contain more corporate, or more controversially,  introduce more corporate in existing stands such as Doug Ellis.

Yet they just by stealth increased prices by removing the early bird and he isn't likely to tell us price rises are coming. 

Its 15K+ paid members on the waiting list, I'm not sure why you take it with a pinch of salt. I don't think with that many waiting that price rises would stangle demand.

I'm not comparing Birmingham to London or the London clubs prices but we are well below plenty of clubs from all over the country.

As for redevelopment focusing on corporate, possibly, if there is the market we've no idea if there is or not. 

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Ah, didn’t know that.

It helps a lot. It That is why we have been able to invest so much money in the training facilities since NSWE bought us. None of that investment is counted towards FFP/P&S either. It is a real sign of where NSWE want to take us I think. Their investment is really significant and they are clearly not trying to use club revenue / profit (losses) to develop our infrastructure. The future is bright 

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

I hope I am wrong but somewhere there must be a cut off point ?

Another way to look at it is that NSWE have billions of $ that they need to put somewhere, there is a limit to how much you can stuff under the mattress before it starts to get too uncomfortable to sleep on. I don't think NSWE are looking at Villa to be a cash cow, rather they are looking at it from a long term investment of their capital. They bought their initial share for about 55m and then pushed this to about 100m to complete the acquisition. I think they are likely to be looking to push the value of the club up as high as they can. If they were to sell AVFC now they surely they would be able to command circa 400m (Covid market conditions ignored), so they are probably very happy with their investment as they would consider it as profitable on their total investment and we have barely scratched the surface on our potential to add real value and have the club valued in the billions. If they were to start extracting money from Villa it would just create another headache of where to put it and tax liabilities while also reducing the value of their current investment. I could be wrong but I think we will see continued and sustained investment for quite a few years to come. At some stage they will want the club to be self financing but as we are in a growth phase that will be a few years into the future.

[The Fun Factory]

31 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It helps a lot. It That is why we have been able to invest so much money in the training facilities since NSWE bought us. None of that investment is counted towards FFP/P&S either. It is a real sign of where NSWE want to take us I think. Their investment is really significant and they are clearly not trying to use club revenue / profit (losses) to develop our infrastructure. The future is bright 

We got millions from the gov to redevelop Bodymoor due to HS2 coming through part of it and having it to be relocated.

[Peter Griffin]

6 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

We got millions from the gov to redevelop Bodymoor due to HS2 coming through part of it and having it to be relocated.

I think it was 12m we got for the Solihull to London express. This was accounted for a a profit from a P&S perspective and NSWE threw more money on top of that towards the development of the facilities.

[ender4]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Yet they just by stealth increased prices by removing the early bird and he isn't likely to tell us price rises are coming. 

Its 15K+ paid members on the waiting list, I'm not sure why you take it with a pinch of salt. I don't think with that many waiting that price rises would stangle demand.

I'm not comparing Birmingham to London or the London clubs prices but we are well below plenty of clubs from all over the country.

As for redevelopment focusing on corporate, possibly, if there is the market we've no idea if there is or not. 

I paid £33 for an adult ticket and £11 for a kids ticket in a good viewing area of the most expensive stand (Trinity).  
 

I was surprised by how cheap the tickets were, I can easily spend double or triple that on a good night out in central Bham.

[Czarnikjak]

33 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

They bought their initial share for about 55m and then pushed this to about 100m to complete the acquisition. I think they are likely to be looking to push the value of the club up as high as they can. If they were to sell AVFC now they surely they would be able to command circa 400m

Don't forget that since the takeover they injected further ~£300m via share issues.

Purslow always says the the aim of the project is to bring "sustainable success" to the club. Which makes perfect sense, this is not a charity.

I think we will not see the same level of cash injections from the owners anymore. They will still support the club where necessary, but the £100m yearly injections we saw since the takeover are gone IMO.

[ender4]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Not sure about a hike in season ticket prices - Mine was approx. £600 - say they put it up over the next few years to £900 - how much extra revenue would that raise ?

£9,000,000 extra per year.  

Or to put it another way an extra Ollie Watkins level transfer fee every 3 years

[Peter Griffin]

3 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said:

Don't forget that since the takeover they injected further ~£300m via share issues.

 

Yep and the 300m plus the 55m has a total investment of about 350m and if the club is worth 400m they have made a profit of 50m on a 350m investment in a 3 year period. That's a very good return on their investment

[bielesibub]

2 hours ago, QldVilla said:

I don’t necessarily agree with this. There’s a lot of Villa fans around the world and always been a lot in Australia.

The club hasn’t done anything to engage with its world wide base, ever. We’ve had Manure, Everton, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City out here in the past few years before COVID, City even bought a club in Melbourne.

My primary schools football jersey was based on Villa and dated back to the 1950’s there’s also a club in Bundaberg called Brothers Aston Villa which dates back to the 1960’s.

I look at the Championship play off and there was no way as a fan from outside of England to buy a ticket for the final through the club. It was only because I was able to buy a ticket through the Wembley club that I was able to go to the game and a 24hr flight.

The club needs to look at ways to engage with its fans outside of England because it’s mostly all one direction at the moment.

Bit off topic. Cheers for this, added another Aston Villa to my map of Aston Villas of the World - https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1dFc7396q23WmS7Mrrjl1ZDp_fPAjATXg&ll=17.21894944990464%2C-51.42932860000002&z=2

 

 

 

[Follyfoot]

8 minutes ago, bielesibub said:

Bit off topic. Cheers for this, added another Aston Villa to my map of Aston Villas of the World - https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1dFc7396q23WmS7Mrrjl1ZDp_fPAjATXg&ll=17.21894944990464%2C-51.42932860000002&z=2

 

 

 

Do you have a flat earth version please