nick76 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, villa89 said: Yes I agree, it seems mad everyone is talking about the ESL but nobody was too bothered discussing the extra 4 places in the CL which are just as bad. Those wildcards would ensure the top teams always qualify. Not really, read the comments from the top of the last page explaining it. It’s not that top teams always qualify. Edited April 21, 2021 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Just read a bit in the Times that I can’t link because I’m not subscribed, that groups are going after UEFA for those two slot places (slot three and four) giving favouritism for a CL league place if they qualify for CL phase or Europa based on coefficients. Based on the ESL debacle, I reckon UEFA will back track quickly and amend that considering they seemed to have come out rosy in this ESL debacle, so they won’t want to lose that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunther Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, nick76 said: Great summary! if it had been this season based on current positions, Liverpool still screwed it up for the back stop slot being 6th and out of the cups. Looking like no Europe for them next season if it stays the same and even under the new format, which doesn’t come in for a few years, they still wouldn’t have qualified. 6th gets you the Europa League though unless both cup winners are outside of the top five, which hasn't happened in decades. So 6th would get them CL, indeed most seasons 7th would get them CL? (assuming their coefficient is within the top two of clubs that haven't qualified, which lets face it will usually be the case). So 'usually', 7th is enough for CL for teams like Man U and Liverpool (with a few caveats). Yes, it's not taking a slot,and if we finished 4th that slot would still be ours. But it's still a pisstake. Edited April 21, 2021 by blunther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, blunther said: 6th gets you the Europa League though unless both cup winners are outside of the top five, which hasn't happened in decades. So 6th would get them CL, indeed most seasons 7th would get them CL? (assuming their coefficient is within the top two of clubs that haven't qualified, which lets face it will usually be the case). So 'usually', 7th is enough for CL for teams like Man U and Liverpool (with a few caveats). Yes, it's not taking a slot,and if we finished 4th that slot would still be ours. But it's still a pisstake. Yeah but that wasnt the take Footy Accum takes and didnt put in the presumption that it assumed the FA Cup winner was also in the CL spot. If they had said that then fine but they didnt and that gives a false impression to the readers. If they had said even that Man U finished in a European place, at least that might be ok but they didnt. The general rule is 4 CL and 1 Europa in the league and then cup winners. If the cup winners are in the CL places then yes it moves to the league but it was disingenuous to not caveat that from the tweet. It was inferring that Man U could finish outside the European places and would get a CL spot just because they are Man U. That is not correct. If they get Europa place by earning it then they get CL spot (assuming they had the highest coefficient of non-automatic qualifying teams, which they would I assume, only if another big team like Munich or Man City also failed would they likely have a higher coefficient than Man U)). That's the BS part of this new rule because it is favoritism if you get into those places. Edited April 21, 2021 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Ok, so lets say the league ends up as: 1) Leicester 2) Man City 3) Chelsea 4) Arsenal 5) Man Utd + FA Cup & second highest coefficient in Europe 6) Liverpool + League Cup & highest coefficient in Europe Do all 6 teams qualify for the Champions League as there are two slots for wildcard coefficient entries? Does 7th get a Europa league spot? Does 8th get a Euro Conference spot? Edited April 21, 2021 by ender4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 21, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ender4 said: Ok, so lets say the league ends up as: 1) Leicester 2) Man City 3) Chelsea 4) Arsenal 5) Man Utd + FA Cup & second highest coefficient in Europe 6) Liverpool + League Cup & highest coefficient in Europe Do all 6 teams qualify for the Champions League as there are two slots for wildcard coefficient entries? Does 7th get a Europa league spot? Does 8th get a Euro Conference spot? You can also add to that, just to take this to the extreme, that the winners of the CL and EL are English teams finishing outside the top 8 in the PL. And no, those questions haven't been answered as far as I'm aware. I'm not even sure that the 2 wildcard entries can be from the same country, but this level of details seemingly hasn't been explored yet. Currently there is a maximum of 7 English teams that can play in European competitions per season and 5 in the CL, but that requires the CL and/or EL winner to have not already qualified for the CL by finishing in the top 4 of the PL to generate the extra place. With the new format, that limit will have to be increased to at least 8 in Europe in total including wildcard(s) and 6 in the CL. Edited April 21, 2021 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Just now, fightoffyour said: You can also add to that, just to take this to the extreme, that the winners of the CL and EL are English teams finishing outside the top 8 in the PL. And no, those answers haven't been answered as far as I'm aware. I'm not even sure that the 2 wildcard entries can be from the same country, but this level of details seemingly hasn't been explored yet. Currently there is a maximum of 7 English teams that can play in European competitions per season and 5 in the CL, but that requires the CL and/or EL winner to have not already qualified for the CL by finishing in the top 4 of the PL to generate the extra place. The limit will have to be increased to at least 8 in total including wildcard(s) with the new format, possibly even 9. good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 New version - Lets say the league ends up as: 1) Leicester 2) Spurs (haha i know!) 3) Everton 4) Arsenal 5) Man Utd + FA Cup & second highest coefficient in Europe 6) Liverpool + League Cup & highest coefficient in Europe 7) Man City - winners of Champions League 8 ) Chelsea - winners of Europa League Do all 8 teams qualify for the Champions League? It seems so! Does 9th get a Europa League spot? Does 10th get a Euro Conference spot? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, ender4 said: New version - Lets say the league ends up as: 1) Leicester 2) Spurs (haha i know!) 3) Everton 4) Arsenal 5) Man Utd + FA Cup & second highest coefficient in Europe 6) Liverpool + League Cup & highest coefficient in Europe 7) Man City - winners of Champions League 8 ) Chelsea - winners of Europa League Do all 8 teams qualify for the Champions League? It seems so! Does 9th get a Europa League spot? Does 10th get a Euro Conference spot? Ha just asked this in the Breakaway League thread. The more fun version of your table above puts Man U and Liverpool in 19th and 20th and winning the cups and so still qualifying for the CL presumably! I assume there has to be a max teams per nation right? If there is, who gets cut first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Ha just asked this in the Breakaway League thread. The more fun version of your table above puts Man U and Liverpool in 19th and 20th and winning the cups and so still qualifying for the CL presumably! I assume there has to be a max teams per nation right? If there is, who gets cut first? ohh i like that. Liverpool get relegated and qualify for the Champions League at the same time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, LondonLax said: The second is a place for a league winner of a minor European league (one of the leagues that currently only gets a Europa League or Qualifying Champions League spot?) Not sure this place would be given to that "low" a team. More than likely would be a team in a league where the champions go into CL qualifying, ie. 11st rank country downwards I think, so as @Zatman suggested above based on current standings looks like would be the Austrian champions? Edited April 21, 2021 by tomsky_11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 All those SL clubs pulled out of UEFA, all coefficient points should be revoked on that basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Cant they just do straight knock outs ffs home and away and anyone draws anyone at any stage. The old UEFA cup way the best in my opinion Edited April 21, 2021 by Demitri_C 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 There's no putting the cat back in the bag unfortunately. I'd like to see it changed to something like 3-4, should be to the next highest finishers in the leagues containing the clubs with best coeff who didn't get in. I.e., big clubs only get back in if the finish exactly one spot outside CL places or else other club gets it and that countries league is rewarded instead of just a single "big" club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 21, 2021 We've basically got three years to see if Arsenal and Spurs can foul up their coefficients. That's why it's so important that teams like Everton and West Ham are beating them and Liverpool, it's why we all need to be fans of those clubs and the likes of Wolves and Southampton. We're part of a group of about eight clubs that are trying very hard to kick the coefficient off of Spurs and Arsenal over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: We've basically got three years to see if Arsenal and Spurs can foul up their coefficients. That's why it's so important that teams like Everton and West Ham are beating them and Liverpool, it's why we all need to be fans of those clubs and the likes of Wolves and Southampton. We're part of a group of about eight clubs that are trying very hard to kick the coefficient off of Spurs and Arsenal over the next few years. Well hopefully this is the beginning of spurs imploding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 21, 2021 Just now, Demitri_C said: Well hopefully this is the beginning of spurs imploding Spurs are the one on the edge - if they don't qualify for Europe at all this season and Leicester make the Champions league then Leicester can really cut that gap to them. It'd be brilliant if after Arsenal and Spurs lobbied and bullied UEFA into a coefficient based qualification rule, Leicester then moved ahead of both of them in the coefficient table before it came in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Spurs are the one on the edge - if they don't qualify for Europe at all this season and Leicester make the Champions league then Leicester can really cut that gap to them. It'd be brilliant if after Arsenal and Spurs lobbied and bullied UEFA into a coefficient based qualification rule, Leicester then moved ahead of both of them in the coefficient table before it came in. Yeah it would. We need spurs to become as bad as arsenal then we have a chance of breaking in. I think it certainly makes it more exciting with the likes of leicester west ham us and everton to challenge the top 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Spurs are the one on the edge - if they don't qualify for Europe at all this season and Leicester make the Champions league then Leicester can really cut that gap to them. It'd be brilliant if after Arsenal and Spurs lobbied and bullied UEFA into a coefficient based qualification rule, Leicester then moved ahead of both of them in the coefficient table before it came in. Arsenal are 11th and Spurs are 14th in the coefficient table out of all clubs in Europe, so very hard for them to drop low enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Coefficients: Arsenal 95 (they got 19 points just this season) Chelsea 92 Spurs 88 Leicester 32 A long long way to go for anyone to break into that club near the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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