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CL New Qualification rules (Slots for the old school ?)


hippo

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So with the ESL pretty much dead - have the champions league  altered there qualification process so that the big clubs have another route in - should they fail to qualify from there domestic league ?  - Below is as clear as mud to me !!!!  - But if for example, Liverpool finished 8th - would they get in under the co efficient rules ? 

And more to the point is this the thin end of the wedge for guaranteed places for the chosen few ? 

 

 

 

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/news/0268-1213f7aa85bb-d56154ff8fe8-1000--uefa-announces-new-format-for-club-competitions-to-be-introduce/

Qualification for the Champions League will continue to be open and depend on a club’s final position in the previous season’s domestic league competition. The additional four slots available in 2024/25 will be allocated according to three different criteria:

Slot one: awarded to a club from the country placed fifth in UEFA’s national association coefficient rankings. Each association's coefficient is based on the results of its clubs’ performances in five previous Champions League and Europa League seasons.

Slot two: awarded to the domestic league champion with the highest club coefficient among all other domestic champions that have not automatically qualified for the Champions League’s league stage.

Slots three and four: awarded to the two clubs with the highest club coefficients that have not qualified automatically for the Champions League’s league stage, but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase or the Europa League/the Europa Conference League (due to start in the 2021/22 season).

 

 

Edited by hippo
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If was currently the 4 teams to get in would be Austrian champions, 4th placed French teams, Liverpool and Borussia Dortmund

Arsenal are ahead of Dortmund but not in the European spots

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35 minutes ago, villa89 said:

The "new" champions league format doesn't start until 2024. There are no changes until then as far as I know. 

Yes - those were the changes I was referring too ??.

It would seem to cynical me - whilst everyone was focused on the ESL - Changes have been put in place for qualification other than through domestic league placings - which was what created the ESL uproar.

 

Edited by hippo
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36 minutes ago, hippo said:

Yes - those were the changes I was referring too ??.

It would seem to cynical me - whilst everyone was focused on the ESL - Changes have been put in place for qualification other than through domestic league placings - which was what created the ESL uproar.

 

I still don’t see in those rules that if Liverpool ended up 8th they would get in the Champions League.  The closet I see they still need to qualify for the CL phase or Europa which isn’t 8th position.  Then they still have to be the highest coefficient as somebody yesterday pointed out would likely be somebody like Liverpool but still another hurdle.  So still need to qualify, still need to have the best coefficient.  So yes more chance them getting in the CL than us but they still need to hit certain milestones.

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4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I still don’t see in those rules that if Liverpool ended up 8th they would get in the Champions League.  The closet I see they still need to qualify for the CL phase or Europa which isn’t 8th position.  Then they still have to be the highest coefficient as somebody yesterday pointed out would likely be somebody like Liverpool but still another hurdle.  So still need to qualify, still need to have the best coefficient.  So yes more chance them getting in the CL than us but they still need to hit certain milestones.

It will be like the rules the allowed that allowed the Man City goal against us. A vague rule to be used to get what you want.

It is IMO a step to qualification  by other means than domestic placings - its not black and white as you say. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, hippo said:

It will be like the rules the allowed that allowed the Man City goal against us. A vague rule to be used to get what you want.

It is IMO a step to qualification  by other means than domestic placings - its not black and white as you say. 

But isn’t this black and white?

Quote

but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase or the Europa League/the Europa Conference League

It is favouritism but they still have to earn through domestic placing before they get favouritism.

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5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

But isn’t this black and white?

It is favouritism but they still have to earn through domestic placing before they get favouritism.

"The additional four slots available in 2024/25 will be allocated according to three different criteria:

Slot one: awarded to a club from the country placed fifth in UEFA’s national association coefficient rankings. Each association's coefficient is based on the results of its clubs’ performances in five previous Champions League and Europa League seasons.

 

 

That isn't black and white to me. - in brings in past performance in the CL \ Europa 

.

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1 hour ago, hippo said:

Yes - those were the changes I was referring too ??.

It would seem to cynical me - whilst everyone was focused on the ESL - Changes have been put in place for qualification other than through domestic league placings - which was what created the ESL uproar.

 

Pretty sure these changes were agreed a few months ago.

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15 minutes ago, hippo said:

"The additional four slots available in 2024/25 will be allocated according to three different criteria:

Slot one: awarded to a club from the country placed fifth in UEFA’s national association coefficient rankings. Each association's coefficient is based on the results of its clubs’ performances in five previous Champions League and Europa League seasons.

 

 

That isn't black and white to me. - in brings in past performance in the CL \ Europa 

.

Ahhh I see where you have misunderstood.  Current CL entry format is

  • Associations 1–4 each had four teams qualify.
  • Associations 5–6 each had three teams qualify.
  • Associations 7–15 each had two teams qualify
  • etc

All this is doing is adding one more association to the first category.  So the top five associations get 4 CL spots instead each season rather than the top four associations.

Current top four are England, Spain, Italy and Germany in that order.  Then based on coefficients of past performance whoever is fifth get four places which is currently France.  They still have to qualify by league position based on a rule elsewhere in UEFA.

 

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3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Ahhh I see where you have misunderstood.  Current CL entry format is

  • Associations 1–4 each had four teams qualify.
  • Associations 5–6 each had three teams qualify.
  • Associations 7–15 each had two teams qualify
  • etc

All this is doing is adding one more association to the first category.  So the top five associations get 4 CL spots instead each season rather than the top four associations.

Current top four are England, Spain, Italy and Germany in that order.  Then based on coefficients of past performance whoever is fifth get four places which is currently France.  They still have to qualify by league position based on a rule elsewhere in UEFA.

 

Added this for more info @hippo

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2021

C3F6ABD3-C8F8-4BEF-B6F4-F2763B4CFDB8.jpeg

Edited by nick76
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3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Wow - you clearly have a more in depth understanding of this than I do.

Whatever - I think all football clubs should be alert to any attempt to get clubs into the CL other than domestic placings - there might well be nothing in these rule changes  - but any 'Special dispensation to apply' should be jumped on - let it go a couple of times and it becomes the norm.

 

 

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For the 4 extra places:

The first is an extra place for France (currently the 5th 'best' league) 

The second is a place for a league winner of a minor European league (one of the leagues that currently only gets a Europa League or Qualifying Champions League spot?)

The third and forth extra places are the problem. They give an extra place to the biggest name that has missed out on qualifying that season (as long as they don't finish so low they are outside of the Europa League places). It means if any of the 'big six' finish 5th they will likely get in anyway but for the rest of us 5th doesn't get you in. The only saving grace is that it's an extra place for the league, they don't take away a place from a smaller club finishing 4th and give it to a bigger club finishing 5th, but it's still a bunch of crap designed to make sure the big teams never miss out, even if they have a bad year.  

 

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8 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

For the 4 extra places:

The first is an extra place for France (currently the 5th 'best' league) 

The second is a place for a league winner of a minor European league (one of the leagues that currently only gets a Europa League or Qualifying Champions League spot?)

The third and forth extra places are the problem. They give an extra place to the biggest name that has missed out on qualifying that season (as long as they don't finish so low they are outside of the Europa League places). It means if any of the 'big six' finish 5th they will likely get in anyway but for the rest of us 5th doesn't get you in. The only saving grace is that it's an extra place for the league, they don't take away a place from a smaller club finishing 4th and give it to a bigger club finishing 5th, but it's still a bunch of crap designed to make sure the big teams never miss out, even if they have a bad year.  

 

Great summary!

if it had been this season based on current positions, Liverpool still screwed it up for the back stop slot being 6th and out of the cups. Looking like no Europe for them next season if it stays the same and even under the new format, which doesn’t come in for a few years, they still wouldn’t have qualified.

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3 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

For the 4 extra places:

The first is an extra place for France (currently the 5th 'best' league) 

The second is a place for a league winner of a minor European league (one of the leagues that currently only gets a Europa League or Qualifying Champions League spot?)

The third and forth extra places are the problem. They give an extra place to the biggest name that has missed out on qualifying that season (as long as they don't finish so low they are outside of the Europa League places). It means if any of the 'big six' finish 5th they will likely get in anyway but for the rest of us 5th doesn't get you in. The only saving grace is that it's an extra place for the league, they don't take away a place from a smaller club finishing 4th and give it to a bigger club finishing 5th, but it's still a bunch of crap designed to make sure the big teams never miss out, even if they have a bad year.  

 

Exactly, it's bad, but it's not even close to being as bad as a completely ring fenced competition. Nor as bad as if the extra coefficient place was awarded instead of the team that finished 4th for example, which might have conceivably seen a situation where Villa earned the last CL spot but were replaced with Liverpool due to historical performance. It's not right that the elite are given this extra safety net, but at least it's as well as and not in favour of a club qualifying on merit from the previous season alone.

What's more unpalatable about the new format, for me at least, is the concept of a 36 club, single league in which each team plays 10 different opposition, 5 at home and 5 away. In what kind of fair league system does every team not play each other at least once? And how are those opposition selected? I presume it will be seeded to favour the big sides of course, although the announcement claims that

Quote

 the new format...raises the prospect of fans seeing the top teams go head to head more often earlier in the competition

which I seriously doubt will actually be the case. The details on this will be announced by the end of the year apparently. Oh, and the Europa League and Conference are switching to this single league format too by the way, unless

Quote

potential adjustments to the format approved on 19 April could still be made if necessary.

 

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1 minute ago, fightoffyour said:

 

What's more unpalatable about the new format, for me at least, is the concept of a 36 club, single league in which each team plays 10 different opposition, 5 at home and 5 away. In what kind of fair league system does every team not play each other at least once? And how are those opposition selected? I presume it will be seeded to favour the big sides of course.

 

A convoluted qualifying stage will seriously turn fans off. 

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2 hours ago, hippo said:

It would seem to cynical me - whilst everyone was focused on the ESL - Changes have been put in place for qualification other than through domestic league placings - which was what created the ESL uproar.

Yes I agree, it seems mad everyone is talking about the ESL but nobody was too bothered discussing the extra 4 places in the CL which are just as bad. Those wildcards would ensure the top teams always qualify. 

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5 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

A convoluted qualifying stage will seriously turn fans off. 

It's just going to be Real Madrid playing 10 BATE Borisovs while there's some mild interest mid table as Napoli face RB Lepizip.

If they really must insist on having 36 teams and extra matches then it could just as well be 4 groups of 9, each team plays each other once home or away. Top 4 from each group straight into the last 16. Hell even do 4th and 5th in each league have to play off for the last knockout stage places if they want those extra matches too. But a 36 team league in which everyone plays 10 games? Nah.

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13 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Yes I agree, it seems mad everyone is talking about the ESL but nobody was too bothered discussing the extra 4 places in the CL which are just as bad. Those wildcards would ensure the top teams always qualify. 

As explained above, it's clearly not as bad, and it certainly doesn't ensure that all of the top teams qualify. There's "only" two "wildcards" and there's still a minimum level of performance required before they can come into practice.

Edited by fightoffyour
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2 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

It's just going to be Real Madrid playing 10 BATE Borisovs while there's some mild interest mid table as Napoli face RB Lepizip.

If they really must insist on having 36 teams and extra matches then it could just as well be 4 groups of 9, each team plays each other once home or away. Top 4 from each group straight into the last 16. Hell even do 4th and 5th in each league have to play off for the last knockout stage places if they want those extra matches too. But a 36 team league in which everyone plays 10 games? Nah.

Would the thinking be that the bigger clubs needn't put out there best 11 in those early matches - if they are against non regular CL Teams ? 

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