TomC Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, DJBOB said: A 532 is the standard for nullifying the popular 3box3 variants. Inter really limited City's chances in the final with the 532 and an aggressive man pressing scheme. It's not any coincidence that the key players on City's goal were defensive players. The ball started from City's left. Inter's 5-man back line had CIty's front 3 and the front 2 of the box pretty well marked, but Inter's entire midfield had shifted to that side of the field. With only 3 midfielders, no Inter player was left on City's right to prevent Akanji from making the initial through ball. DiMarco (who had been excellent) then slipped (not the first player to slip on that pitch in that match). Calhanoglu had to retreat to the back line to try to reach Bernardo Silva, who made the cutback. This left essentially only 2 players in midfield, plenty of room for Rodri to pounce. DiMarco gets up and tries to get across to stop him but wasn't able to recover in time. So, in short, Inter's back 5 had City's front 5 marked, but with only 3 midfielders, an over-shift to the City left followed by a slip left huge gaps for Akanji and Rodri to do what they did. The lesson? I guess you play 5-4-1 against City. Edited June 13, 2023 by TomC Fixed grammar error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 On 11/06/2023 at 15:11, Delphinho123 said: McGinn and Ramsey are starting next season ahead of Tielemans and it’ll have to be the latter that forces his way into the side. McGinn and Ramsey were in very good form towards the back end of the season. Aside from the fact that he finished the season well, McGinn is almost certain to start also because he's the only left-footed midfielder of the bunch. (I'm counting Bailey as a forward, even though he played in midfield a few times at the end of the season.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted June 29, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 29, 2023 I can see the following team as a potential.. Martinez Konsa Torres Mings Kamara Tielemans new RW McGinn Luiz Ramsey Watkins 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, catanzaro said: I can see the following team as a potential.. Martinez Konsa Torres Mings Kamara Tielemans new RW McGinn Luiz Ramsey Watkins What happens when Moreno is back from injury? Also Tielemans was bad last season playing at 6. Better previous seasons as an 8 so Kamara and Luiz will continue as double pivot in front of defence Edited June 29, 2023 by Kiwivillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, catanzaro said: I can see the following team as a potential.. Martinez Konsa Torres Mings Kamara Tielemans new RW McGinn Luiz Ramsey Watkins 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted June 29, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 29, 2023 28 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: What happens when Moreno is back from injury? Also Tielemans was bad last season playing at 6. Better previous seasons as an 8 so Kamara and Luiz will continue as double pivot in front of defence Yeah both very good points.. it’s just fascinating to see what we’re going to do.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 With a flat back four (I've bolded players who I think may be replaced in the lineup by new additional signings after Torres): Martinez Cash Mings Torres Moreno Tielemans Kamara McGinn Luiz Ramsey Watkins With three centre backs starting (3-4-2-1): Martinez Konsa/Carlos Torres Mings McGinn Tielemans Kamara Moreno Ramsey Luiz Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, catanzaro said: I can see the following team as a potential.. Martinez Konsa Torres Mings Kamara Tielemans new RW McGinn Luiz Ramsey Watkins No. You can't play without a full back or wing back of any description. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted June 29, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: No. You can't play without a full back or wing back of any description. By the reactions.. it looks like I’m very wrong.. it’s a good job I just watch football and don’t manage in any capacity.. I think Leeroy’s 3421 is better.. if ever we play a 3 2 4 1 I’ll be sure to point it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 37 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: No. You can't play without a full back or wing back of any description. Wolves weren't far off that with their 343 when they first came up tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Pau Torres and Boubacar Kamara on our books. Two elite level type signings. What an exciting time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Tom13 said: Pau Torres and Boubacar Kamara on our books. Two elite level type signings. What an exciting time. Wait until lunchtime today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 8 hours ago, Mr_Dogg said: No. You can't play without a full back or wing back of any description. Except of course Man City did exactly this and won the treble. Playing 3 CBs at the back and a CB (Stones) and CDM in a double pivot ahead of them. Stones would drop back into CB position to form a flat back 4 when defending. My view is we will play with 3CBs and a Full Back in most games next season. When we are in possession the fullback gets forward to play as a winger and the 3CBs shift across to form a back 3 with the best one on one defenders as the two on the outside RCB/LCB 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Except of course Man City did exactly this and won the treble. Playing 3 CBs at the back and a CB (Stones) and CDM in a double pivot ahead of them. Stones would drop back into CB position to form a flat back 4 when defending. My view is we will play with 3CBs and a Full Back in most games next season. When we are in possession the fullback gets forward to play as a winger and the 3CBs shift across to form a back 3 with the best one on one defenders as the two on the outside RCB/LCB The formation shown doesn't cater for that. And unless we find out own John Stones, we won't be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 8 hours ago, catanzaro said: By the reactions.. it looks like I’m very wrong.. it’s a good job I just watch football and don’t manage in any capacity.. I think Leeroy’s 3421 is better.. if ever we play a 3 2 4 1 I’ll be sure to point it out Formations are becoming pointless to quote I feel. I think there needs to be at least 4 quoted for Villa they are 4 4 2 when defending (we play high line when opposition build from back) 4 2 2 2 when build up from the back as we want to trigger the press onto our back 4 then play through it via the double pivot or direct to one of the 4 further up 3 box 3 (3 2 2 3) when we are in possession the left back gets forward to form the left side of attack and the back three shift over 3 2 5 / 2 3 5 when we are in the final third the 2 attacking midfielders join the line to overload opposition back 4 one of the back 3 joins the midfield, this allows late runs into box by one of the 6s (as we see Luiz do) This is the general "formations" at different states of the game. Different players have different roles during this. The two key ones are which full back plays as the winger in possession and which fullback firms part of the back three. Then which players create the 10s in the box LM/FWD or LM/RM - essentially one of front two drops deep and one wide mid moves in (like we see with Ramsey and Buendia). What we've been missing is a right footed winger who can play RM and for the wide attacking player on the right with Moreno the wide player on the left. We're also missing that forward to play with Watkins who can drop deep to link play and then get back into box and score (think the way Kane plays). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: The formation shown doesn't cater for that. And unless we find out own John Stones, we won't be doing it. Man City played 3 2 4 1. We have Torres/Kamara who can play the Stones role and drop into CB from 6. I don't think we'll play the formation as it was suited to City as the threat to them was primarily from counter attacks as they dominate possession in every game and could build up with 3CBs and GK forming the 4th CB. We have a player like Moreno who is a brilliant attacking player so our back 4 works well and we need the extra man for build up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I'd say currently we are only behind Man C and possible some other club when it comes to how comfortable on the ball our defensive players are. Martinez is OK or even good for a GK. Moreno, Torres Carlos, Kamara and Luiz are excellent and Mings, Konsa, Cash & Digne are not bad either. We might get a new RB too and if we do I imagine he'll be good with the ball. On the attacking side I'd say we are still miles behind the best teams thou. We must get better at keeping the ball in the attacking 3rd and we need our players to do things at a higher tempo. Fully trust Emery to be on the ball with this thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 13 hours ago, CVByrne said: Except of course Man City did exactly this and won the treble. Playing 3 CBs at the back and a CB (Stones) and CDM in a double pivot ahead of them. Stones would drop back into CB position to form a flat back 4 when defending. Hadn't really thought about this, but it's a possibility for us. Stones was almost like back-to-the-future...instead of attacking fullbacks, he was an attacking CB almost in the Beckenbauer mold (not that good obviously). Is this was Unai has in mind for Torres? Quote My view is we will play with 3CBs and a Full Back in most games next season. When we are in possession the fullback gets forward to play as a winger and the 3CBs shift across to form a back 3 with the best one on one defenders as the two on the outside RCB/LCB Which is essentially what we did last year, just using a CB (probably Konsa) as the RB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 I think the RCB position is less dependent on being right footed than normally the case because of the move to the functional back 3 in possession. Also Torres does a lot of progressive carries forward from the left (a lot more than Mings does) so if he plays LCB and Mings RCB we'll have Moreno up in the wide forward position, JJ moving from LM into the 10 spot behind the forwards and Torres moving up into LM so the RCB in out defensive shape is ending up covering the left side in our rest defence. So if we have a back 4 of Moreno, Torres, Mings, Konsa In possession back three 3 2 2 3 shapre Torres, Mings Konsa - Luiz, Kamara Then attacking shape 2 3 5 of Mings, Konsa - Torres, Luiz, Kamara So I expect Mings to play LCB/RCB next season. I don't think a back 2 of Torres and Konsa works in the PL as you need a destroyer like Mings or Carlos. I think if Carlos is over his injury Konsa will be the player who starts the fewest games in one of the CB spots next season. I feel he will get time at RB as his best skill is defending one on ones and his pace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 i wonder if we will see something like this: base formation: Attacking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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