Team shape, tactics and personnel

[ZL-]

We've moved from an average possession of 46% both last season as well as 44% the season before.

So far our possession stats were 66% vs Bournemouth and 58% vs Everton.

It is of course early in the season and the nature of these games could bias the possession favourably to us, but for me there is a concerted effort to make us a possession based side starting this season as Gerrard as mentioned. I have reservations on SG just like many but I do firmly believe this change is necessary to take us to the next level.

We will have periods of 'stale' possession as we make this change, I think Arteta's Arsenal were a great example who had large periods of failing to break down teams with the ball but over time slowly worked in a cutting edge. Seemingly possession based football is built as safety first which then creative risks and worked in later.

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I think its more to do with reality, when Hyperbole, is at work.

This constant drone about European Football, is like a ***** teaser.

This team is not ready in its current form for European Football.....thats what prompts the lowering of expectations.

Its called, different opinions.

yet you were disappointed 2 seasons ago we didnt qualify for Europe with Barkley, Trez and Targett playing most weeks

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, ZL- said:

We've moved from an average possession of 46% both last season as well as 44% the season before.

So far our possession stats were 66% vs Bournemouth and 58% vs Everton.

It is of course early in the season and the nature of these games could bias the possession favourably to us, but for me there is a concerted effort to make us a possession based side starting this season as Gerrard as mentioned. I have reservations on SG just like many but I do firmly believe this change is necessary to take us to the next level.

We will have periods of 'stale' possession as we make this change, I think Arteta's Arsenal were a great example who had large periods of failing to break down teams with the ball but over time slowly worked in a cutting edge. Seemingly possession based football is built as safety first which then creative risks and worked in later.

Not comparable. Both Bournemouth and Everton made it clear they intended to sit deep, they didn’t press high and more or less handed the initiative to Villa. Few games will be like that.

[ZL-]

1 hour ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Not comparable. Both Bournemouth and Everton made it clear they intended to sit deep, they didn’t press high and more or less handed the initiative to Villa. Few games will be like that.

I agree its two fixtures that make those numbers look most likely better than they are. Purely on the eye test (no stats to back up) I felt we had lion share of possession in all of our pre season games including high pressing Rennes and Utd.

We only recorded more than 50% possession on two occasions last season, so we have already matched that. Lets keep an eye on this stat as the season develops, my theory is over the 38 game run our possession will be notably higher than previous seasons.

[PussEKatt]

Possession is only an important statistic if you do something with it.

[CVByrne]

They key will come when we want to build possession from the back against teams who press high and put us under pressure. If we can beat the press there is space behind as they've pushed their team high in the press. If we can't beat the press we lose possession close to our goal which is dangerous.

Without Carlos we are at a disadvantage now in building from the back as he and Kamara were key to this. Press resistant and can play passes over the press. 

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

I think its more to do with reality, when Hyperbole, is at work.

This constant drone about European Football, is like a ***** teaser.

This team is not ready in its current form for European Football.....thats what prompts the lowering of expectations.

Its called, different opinions.

What was the point in sacking the last guy then? 

And why did people moan so much about us not finishing top half in his 2nd season in the league?

Now We're in our 4th year, spent a fortune on players and there seems to be an acceptance that We're not good enough. Shame the same reasonable people have only just decided to be reasonable when the manager has changed  

[DCJonah]

9 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

They key will come when we want to build possession from the back against teams who press high and put us under pressure. If we can beat the press there is space behind as they've pushed their team high in the press. If we can't beat the press we lose possession close to our goal which is dangerous.

Without Carlos we are at a disadvantage now in building from the back as he and Kamara were key to this. Press resistant and can play passes over the press. 

Then it's up to the manager to adapt.

We have a huge squad. The loss of one player shouldn't just destroy everything. 

 

[Reivax_Villa]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Then it's up to the manager to adapt.

We have a huge squad. The loss of one player shouldn't just destroy everything. 

 

It does if you cannot match the skillset

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said:

It does if you cannot match the skillset

So 1 defender dictates everything. All that money spent and Carlos is the difference between top half and not? I find that nonsense. And if it is true then what the **** have we been doing in the transfer windows? 

I remember Dean got a lot of stick for not being able to do as well without Jack. Let's see if the same applies then.

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said:

It does if you cannot match the skillset

lets be honest and its quite tough for Carlos because he got injured. But from his 2 games I wouldnt say he was a stand out that he was going to be a player of the year candidate. He might have been going forward.

His passing is a little bit overrated on here from the 2 games we have seen

[sne]

Building from the back and possession football seems like a fanciful idea since our current midfield means we don't keep the ball anyway. We are never going to have possession in the areas we want as long as we pair McGinn & Ramsey (unless Ramsey develops that quality).

Carlos missing means we'll be poorer at passing it around among the back 5 and at resisting pressure but our issues with slow tempo, no movement patterns and Coutinho not getting the ball at his feet will have been the same most likely.

Guess we'll be seeing even more hoofs from Mings and McGinn now, and sometimes it will work.

[ZL-]

20 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

They key will come when we want to build possession from the back against teams who press high and put us under pressure. If we can beat the press there is space behind as they've pushed their team high in the press. If we can't beat the press we lose possession close to our goal which is dangerous.

Without Carlos we are at a disadvantage now in building from the back as he and Kamara were key to this. Press resistant and can play passes over the press. 

Agree, would say Kamara is a bit more important for this fortunately but no doubt Carlos gave us security under pressure and is a shame to lose for this style.

If anyone else still in doubt that this is a concerted shift: 

 

[Zatman]

9 minutes ago, ZL- said:

Agree, would say Kamara is a bit more important for this fortunately but no doubt Carlos gave us security under pressure and is a shame to lose for this style.

If anyone else still in doubt that this is a concerted shift: 

 

we also played defensive teams that played 5 at the back so it was pointless to go a bit more direct as was no space. I would like to see this stat after 8/9 games

[Reivax_Villa]

22 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So 1 defender dictates everything. All that money spent and Carlos is the difference between top half and not? I find that nonsense. And if it is true then what the **** have we been doing in the transfer windows? 

I remember Dean got a lot of stick for not being able to do as well without Jack. Let's see if the same applies then.

This game is about fine margins albeit a lapse of concentration or an injury to a champions league level defender that can be the difference between top half and bottom half.

[CVByrne]

23 minutes ago, ZL- said:

Agree, would say Kamara is a bit more important for this fortunately but no doubt Carlos gave us security under pressure and is a shame to lose for this style.

If anyone else still in doubt that this is a concerted shift: 

 

Yes Carlos had a very good long pass and was press resistant so we could absorb opposition pressure on our build up play from the back and pass through it or pass more directly over it into the space behind. Mings and Konsa do not possess this ability and it's still an option question how press resistant Chambers is while he does have a good pass from what we've seen. Chambers however lacks a physical presence like Konsa/Ming's/Carlos have.

I think we really need to see if we can add a replacement for Carlos this window if the right player is available and that player is deemed superior to Chambers/Konsa. 

We have not yet played a team who press us high up the pitch so we've not been tested on that department we've been gifted easy possession build up from the back in opening two games so far. 

[DCJonah]

14 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said:

This game is about fine margins albeit a lapse of concentration or an injury to a champions league level defender that can be the difference between top half and bottom half.

And yet we sacked the last manager when we lost Grealish and had lots of injuries. 

Now we can't possibly aim for top half without a defender who played 2 games for us. 1 of which was an abysmal performance. 

 

[Indigo]

We definitely have seen a shift in opinion from "should have done better" when we finished 11th to just deciding that this is the 14th best team in the league because that's where it finished last time out, and better can't be achieved unless there's more signings.

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, ZL- said:

Agree, would say Kamara is a bit more important for this fortunately but no doubt Carlos gave us security under pressure and is a shame to lose for this style.

If anyone else still in doubt that this is a concerted shift: 

 

And it has clearly affected the entertainment value. We are a bore. Really hard to progress the ball quickly when you have to wait for the fullbacks to advance from one box to another. 

[VillaParkAvenue]

4 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

And it has clearly affected the entertainment value. We are a bore. Really hard to progress the ball quickly when you have to wait for the fullbacks to advance from one box to another. 

Progressing the ball quickly often means hoofing it. Burnley were the most direct team before they got relegated.