Johnnyp Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Not going to claim i have a massive interest in horse racing but i do enjoy the cut and thrust of national hunt season and the odd bet. Picture surfaced of Gordon Elliot over the weekend. Apparently taken, last summer. He's in it deep now whatever way you look at it. His statement in response to the picture is appalling. The horse died in the gallop from heart failure. It happens. He claims that as he assisted in the removal of the body, his phone rang, he sat down on the horse, took the call and made the gesture sign to somebody out of picture who was calling him " I'll be with you in 2 minutes " He might not come back from this. Banned in britian from tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 He will come back because he’s such a big name, very doubtful they can just cast someone out like that. As bad as it looks a lot of the criticism will be coming from people who have never watched a horse race in their life, never mind visited a race track or an actual stables, I find it hard to listen to their criticism vs someone that has to deal with horses all day every day. That being said I’m not sure how he moves past this at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) My take was in the veggie thread. Admittedly I hadn't fully read the facts of this incident and assumed the horse had died via the, ahem, usual means. Point stands though, IMO. I think it's very unusual indeed that this is where some people are drawing the line. Quote It's fine to eat animals. It's not fine to eat horses, because, I don't know, they're cute, I guess? It's fine to race horses and thrash them with a whip. It's fine to shoot the horses to death when injured during said racing. But sitting on the horse you've shot dead after it's been raced and thrashed with a whip is over the line. And it's vegans who are mental? Edited March 1, 2021 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, AVFCDAN said: He will come back because he’s such a big name, very doubtful they can just cast someone out like that. As bad as it looks a lot of the criticism will be coming from people who have never watched a horse race in their life, never mind visited a race track or an actual stables, I find it hard to listen to their criticism vs someone that has to deal with horses all day every day. That being said I’m not sure how he moves past this at the moment. I think you should listen to what mick fitz and ruby walsh said about it. They were pretty appalled. His statement has made things so much worse. He's going to be hit hard, no two ways about it. Feel for his staff if he loses horses but all his own doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted March 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Davkaus said: My take was in the veggie thread. Admittedly I hadn't fully read the facts of this incident and assumed the horse had died via the, ahem, usual means. Point stands though, IMO. I think it's very unusual indeed that this is where some people are drawing the line. he won't come back from this. whevever people rightly question the ethics of horseracing, the counter argument has always been how well loved and cared for the horses are by all their connections. elliot has totally **** that argument for everyone involved with the sport. whilst you accept that horse fatalities are an unfortunate occurance in racing, you trust that when they occur the horses are treated with dignity. this clearly didn't happen here. but i hear you, some would rather they not be out there racing at all. for those like me that watch the sport daily, i can see where a line was crossed here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 unsurprisingly he has been publicly backed by Michael O'Leary. a man with no shame 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 His excuse is probably the worst I have ever heard, Lescott tweeting the car had a better bloody excuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 The BHA have gone after him pretty hard. He won't set foot on a British track for a long time. The silence from the IHRB is worrying. He's not some kid who was mucking around, sat on a dead animal and got his mate to take a picture. He's held to very high standards. Also, brings into question the culture at the yard. If someone can take a selfie of the the CEO essentially, sitting on a dead horse without fear of consequence - that's not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: My take was in the veggie thread. Admittedly I hadn't fully read the facts of this incident and assumed the horse had died via the, ahem, usual means. Point stands though, IMO. I think it's very unusual indeed that this is where some people are drawing the line. I'm sure you get this, but the point is it explodes the idea - whether fiction or otherwise - that holds the sport up, which is that horses are well-treated, are basically glorified pets, rather than machines or investment vehicles. Nobody sits on their dog after it dies to take a phone call. I'm also sure, if you've talked to meat-eaters about being veggie/vegan before, you've probably encountered the enormous reluctance that Normies have to thinking about how animals die and how they are treated during that process, and the great extents that the food industry goes to to keep the realities of industrialised farming and slaughtering away from the public gaze. It's precisely because these comfortable illusions are so fragile that images that challenge them are so dangerous. Edited March 1, 2021 by HanoiVillan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm sure you get this, but the point is it explodes the idea - whether fiction or otherwise - that holds the sport up, which is that horses are well-treated, are basically glorified pets, rather than machines or investment vehicles. I'm also sure, if you've talked to meat-eaters about being veggie/vegan before, you've probably encountered the enormous reluctance that Normies have to thinking about how animals die and how they are treated during that process, and the great extents that the food industry goes to to keep the realities of industrialised farming and slaughtering away from the public gaze. It's precisely because these comfortable illusions are so fragile that images that challenge them are so dangerous. I agree with this. The horse been dead is of little relevance. They have a duty of care to the animal when it's alive and it passes. This is like a trophy picture. I feel for him in the sense that he came from nothing, had no backing, built up an empire and attracted the world's wealthiest owners. Hard to see how he recovers from this. I sincerely mean it that i hope someone around him keeps an eye on him in the next while and that he doesn't do anything stupid. He's pretty fragile right now im sure but he's put a massive dent into the perception of racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted March 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, Johnnyp said: The BHA have gone after him pretty hard. He won't set foot on a British track for a long time. The silence from the IHRB is worrying. He's not some kid who was mucking around, sat on a dead animal and got his mate to take a picture. He's held to very high standards. Also, brings into question the culture at the yard. If someone can take a selfie of the the CEO essentially, sitting on a dead horse without fear of consequence - that's not good. cheltenham will certainly be interesting. expect a few owners are frantically trying to find new yards in time for the festival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted March 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Johnnyp said: I agree with this. The horse been dead is of little relevance. They have a duty of care to the animal when it's alive and it passes. This is like a trophy picture. I feel for him in the sense that he came from nothing, had no backing, built up an empire and attracted the world's wealthiest owners. Hard to see how he recovers from this. I sincerely mean it that i hope someone around him keeps an eye on him in the next while and that he doesn't do anything stupid. He's pretty fragile right now im sure but he's put a massive dent into the perception of racing. from what i've heard theres more to come on this. fights during lockdown parties that he's hosted etc. the photo is over 2 years old and someone has had it in their back pocket and has decided to leak it now because he's wound someone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 hour ago, AVFCDAN said: vs someone that has to deal with horses all day every day. ‘Deal with’ or ‘look after and care for’? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 13 hours ago, a m ole said: ‘Deal with’ or ‘look after and care for’? Depends how you interpret the picture. Some people will believe that 20 years of caring and loving horses go out the window because of one error of judgement, personally I don’t but then again I can’t be sure that he has no respect for the animals and it’s all just a job to him, I choose to believe the former though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, AVFCDAN said: Depends how you interpret the picture. Some people will believe that 20 years of caring and loving horses go out the window because of one error of judgement, personally I don’t but then again I can’t be sure that he has no respect for the animals and it’s all just a job to him, I choose to believe the former though. What are the chances that you are looking at the 'one error of judgement', and that the other 20 years *only* consists of 'caring and loving horses'? Spectacularly bad luck, if he's only ever screwed up once and that's the photo we've all seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted March 2, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2021 Like the idea of a wonderful nurse in a care home only once thieving from a resident's handbag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 2, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 2, 2021 What a word removed. His attempted explanation of it is truly embarrassing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Genuine question here, from someone that’s been ‘to the horses’ 2 or 3 times in my life: What’s the split of people that go to the races for the love of seeing horses in motion, versus a bit of a day out with some drinks and gambling? I’m guessing it’s about 10% / 90% ? Or am I being a bit harsh? Is there a significant non-gambling following for certain trainers, or stables, or horses? Do people re watch old races or deliberately buy stuff in their favourite jockey’s racing colours? Follow up question, if it had been a farmer sat across a dead cow, would it all kick off in the county show ground fraternity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Genuine question here, from someone that’s been ‘to the horses’ 2 or 3 times in my life: What’s the split of people that go to the races for the love of seeing horses in motion, versus a bit of a day out with some drinks and gambling? I’m guessing it’s about 10% / 90% ? Or am I being a bit harsh?g Is there a significant non-gambling following for certain trainers, or stables, or horses? Do people re watch old races or deliberately buy stuff in their favourite jockey’s racing colours? Follow up question, if it had been a farmer sat across a dead cow, would it all kick off in the county show ground fraternity? You’re being harsh in my opinion, a lot of people love it for the sport it is. Edited March 2, 2021 by AVFCDAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted March 2, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Genuine question here, from someone that’s been ‘to the horses’ 2 or 3 times in my life: What’s the split of people that go to the races for the love of seeing horses in motion, versus a bit of a day out with some drinks and gambling? I’m guessing it’s about 10% / 90% ? Or am I being a bit harsh? Is there a significant non-gambling following for certain trainers, or stables, or horses? Do people re watch old races or deliberately buy stuff in their favourite jockey’s racing colours? Follow up question, if it had been a farmer sat across a dead cow, would it all kick off in the county show ground fraternity? they're not really mutually exclusive. the sport is largely funded by gambling companies so there is always a gambling element to it. i doubt many go to the races 'just to watch' and not have a bet. but there will be people with differing levels of interest in the sport. people that watch racing on the telly throughout the year even if they don't have money on all the races they watch vs those that will only watch a race if they've got money on something i know of people that do follow particular jockeys yes, but it's not the same way as a football team. i've never known of anyone buying a replica jersey for example. but again, it will be more from a gambling aspect than being 'fans' of the jockey. some people have a fondness for particular horses, especially the top rated ones, and you find yourself watching their races even if you don't have a bet (mainly because the prices are so short it's pointless) regarding your question around a farmer and a cow...it definitely wouldn't be as big an outrage. ultimately a farmer is raising a cow for a certain fate. trainers/owners love and care for their horses and are genuinely devastated when they die. critics of the sport might find that confusing, but it's a fact. what elliot did went totally against that and painted all other trainers with the same brush 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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