Gordon Elliot

[AvfcRigo82]

On 01/03/2021 at 22:10, Zatman said:

unsurprisingly he has been publicly backed by Michael O'Leary. a man with no shame

I agree, As well as RyanAir, he owns Giggenstown Stud who he has several horses in training with Gordon Elliott.

[AvfcRigo82]

On 02/03/2021 at 14:04, chrisp65 said:

Genuine question here, from someone that’s been ‘to the horses’ 2 or 3 times in my life:

What’s the split of people that go to the races for the love of seeing horses in motion, versus a bit of a day out with some drinks and gambling?

I’m guessing it’s about 10% / 90% ?

Or am I being a bit harsh?

Is there a significant non-gambling following for certain trainers, or stables, or horses? Do people re watch old races or deliberately buy stuff in their favourite jockey’s racing colours? 

Follow up question, if it had been a farmer sat across a dead cow, would it all kick off in the county show ground fraternity?

He is an idiot for doing what he has done and should have been warned off altogether imo.

A few of the owners and their horses starting to seek other trainers instead now which I am glad to see.

Most of GE trained horses have now gone across to Denise Foster to be trained.

To respond to your post @chrisp65 I would say you're not far off, it's about 80/20 in terms of the folk that go to racing for the genuine equine passion (National Hunt) opposed to that of your lads piss up days to the Epsom Derby (Flat) where it's probably more 70/30 to get pissed rather than have genuine passion if that makes sense?

As already mentioned, Jockey Silks/Owners Colours are not like football shirts,  however it has been known for people to get into the occasion at times to show their support to certain horses.  I remember around 2007 at the Cheltenham Festival where Kauto Star vs Denman saw a few people sporting scarfs or t-shirts for that horse but not an everyday thing to do.

People can develop an attachment to horses over the years or even certain owners and trainers too.

As for the dead cow - I cannot answer that, but in Horse Racing (where welfare activists are just waiting for a horse to fart the wrong way so they kick up a fuss) it's scrutinised heavily and unacceptable what Elliot did and his excuse was **** bullshit.

 

[mjmooney]

Meh. The horse was already dead. 

Sorry to go against the grain here, but I don't quite get all this outrage. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

Meh. The horse was already dead. 

Sorry to go against the grain here, but I don't quite get all this outrage. 

Like with Americans washing their chickens in chlorine, it's not so much the act in itself that is damning, but more what it suggests about the rest of the process.

[Stevo985]

I think it's a very disrespectful way to treat a dead animal. You wouldn't do that to a dead person, or a dead pet. Why do it to a horse?

And like Hanoi says, it suggests that the animals aren't treated with respect anywhere in the process. For a sport that is under scrutiny for how they treat animals anyway, it's not a good look.

But like I said before, the worst part about the whole thing is the embarrassing attempt to explain it

[mjmooney]

34 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it's a very disrespectful way to treat a dead animal. You wouldn't do that to a dead person, or a dead pet. Why do it to a horse?

Dunno. I suppose I'm not a very horsey person. If they care that much about their pet horses they should ban horse racing, it seems pretty brutal. I guess it's back to the old vegan argument - I can't really spend my life consuming the products of factory farming and then start hand-wringing over a dead horse that's heading for the glue factory. I'd be the same if it was a dog or a cat... unless of course it was my dog or cat, natch. But then I wouldn't have been using my dog or cat as a component of the gambling machine. 

[HanoiVillan]

8 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Dunno. I suppose I'm not a very horsey person. If they care that much about their pet horses they should ban horse racing, it seems pretty brutal. I guess it's back to the old vegan argument - I can't really spend my life consuming the products of factory farming and then start hand-wringing over a dead horse that's heading for the glue factory. I'd be the same if it was a dog or a cat... unless of course it was my dog or cat, natch. But then I wouldn't have been using my dog or cat as a component of the gambling machine. 

Well, that's the answer to the thing you were wondering earlier, about why the outrage. The outrage is performative, and defensive. In order to distract from the mistreatment that is an essential component of the sport, the sport wraps itself in a mythos in which horses are like pets, people only get into the sport because of their pure love of horses, etc etc. Of course, whether there's truth in that or not it is completely secondary to the fact that horse racing is big business. But if it was 'just business', people would be less tolerant of horses being shot on the track, or whipped as they race, and people might start to look too closely at what happens to uncompetitive horses. So there is a thin layer of animal-loving gloss over everything, and therefore when this picture emerges, others in the industry must amp the outrage up to 11 to disassociate the 'normal' operation of the sport from this 'pathological' behaviour. Most of the outrage has come from people *within* the industry, but it is as defensive as it is sincere.

[OutByEaster?]

I've never understood the "sport" bit of horse racing - it's a spectacle I guess, but in sporting terms I can't see why anyone would watch horse racing on the TV or at a course if they weren't betting or there for a day out. It's a meat shaped random number generator for gamblers.

 

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Dunno. I suppose I'm not a very horsey person. If they care that much about their pet horses they should ban horse racing, it seems pretty brutal. I guess it's back to the old vegan argument - I can't really spend my life consuming the products of factory farming and then start hand-wringing over a dead horse that's heading for the glue factory. I'd be the same if it was a dog or a cat... unless of course it was my dog or cat, natch. But then I wouldn't have been using my dog or cat as a component of the gambling machine. 

Well that's kind of the answer to the question really. It is a brutal sport for the animals. but the defence of it is usually that the horses are safe and treated with respect and looked after etc. And pictures like this suggest otherwise

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Well that's kind of the answer to the question really. It is a brutal sport for the animals. but the defence of it is usually that the horses are safe and treated with respect and looked after etc. And pictures like this suggest otherwise

Flogging a dead horse. 

[AvfcRigo82]

16 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I can't see why anyone would watch horse racing on the TV or at a course if they weren't betting or there for a day out.

Same could be said for people who watch football matches but don't even support the teams playing.

[lapal_fan]

16 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I've never understood the "sport" bit of horse racing - it's a spectacle I guess, but in sporting terms I can't see why anyone would watch horse racing on the TV or at a course if they weren't betting or there for a day out. It's a meat shaped random number generator for gamblers.

 

Could do it just as well by attaching some pork chops to runners backs and see who wins a race.  Same thing really, plus, no one would get annoyed if a runner died and the pork chop sat on top of the corpse. 

Just got to think these things through. 

[OutByEaster?]

29 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Same could be said for people who watch football matches but don't even support the teams playing.

I wouldn't agree. No matter how good a horse is, he's unlikely to produce a moment of sublime skill that justifies the price of admission on its own, he's unlikely to get involved in a clash of personalities with the other horses, it's unlikely a running feud will develop, or that one horse will become frustrated at how much better they are than the other horses. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a highlights programme that shows the great moments from races - you watch to see which horse pays out.

Essentially, I think human beings are capable of doing more interesting things than horses.

 

[AvfcRigo82]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

I wouldn't agree. No matter how good a horse is, he's unlikely to produce a moment of sublime skill that justifies the price of admission on its own, he's unlikely to get involved in a clash of personalities with the other horses, it's unlikely a running feud will develop, or that one horse will become frustrated at how much better they are than the other horses. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a highlights programme that shows the great moments from races - you watch to see which horse pays out.

Essentially, I think human beings are capable of doing more interesting things than horses.

 

I didn't expect you to agree.

That's your opinion and you have formed your own conclusion. Enough said.

[OutByEaster?]

10 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I didn't expect you to agree.

That's your opinion and you have formed your own conclusion. Enough said.

Fair enough, I know that the day, the occasion and the art of betting can add up to something really memorable - it's just that for me the bit where the horses go round is secondary to all that, but I don't want to knock the excitement that comes with the occasion, it's not pointless, it's just peculiar as a sport.