Tom13 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Zatman said: Watkins XG is 7.55 and Mitrovic is 11.76 this season so no Fulham have actually provided more creativity this season Watkins has been involved in 9 goals and Mitrovic 12 this season and he has 3 penalties to Ollie Zero No surprise that Mitro has a higher xG. Not saying he's better than Ollie overall but his instincts and attacking positioning are better. Edited February 6, 2023 by Tom13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 9 hours ago, Oaks said: Ihranacho has 6 goals in the last 18 months ffs He's still a better finisher and more intelligent runner in behind, and that's a fact. He's also only played 1,615 PL minutes in the last 18 months, compared to Ollie's 4,586. You need that context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted February 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2023 11 hours ago, Villaphan04 said: we'll have a hard ******* time finding a striker who is an upgrade on him with a similar skill set in the current market. Players have gone for almost double what he went for and have flamed out quickly. Even Darwin Núñez, who went for 80m, has the same # of goals that Ollie has. We and everyone else. "Pep-Ball" and "system" football, at least in what I see and read, have arguably stunted the development of strikers across the whole world and produced an abundance of non-striker players going up front -- inverted wingers, etc? On top of all that, it's a dynamic game that's always fluctuating and somersaulting through differing coaching and training trends. It's a tricky one. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Watkins goals plus assists is 10 goal contributions. That puts him 7th behind Haaland Kane Toney Mitrovic Jesus Wilson. Hardly that bad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Just to highlight a few points ollie missed sitters vs newcastle and liverpool two games we lost and may have ended differnetly if he had taken those opportunities The liverpool game especially i think score ends differently if he scored that. Not sure what happened to him as his 1st season he looked unbelievable in front of game. As soon as fans came back his finishing has been very hit and miss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Just to highlight a few points ollie missed sitters vs newcastle and liverpool two games we lost and may have ended differnetly if he had taken those opportunities The liverpool game especially i think score ends differently if he scored that. Not sure what happened to him as his 1st season he looked unbelievable in front of game. As soon as fans came back his finishing has been very hit and miss. That may just be the point….crowds! Look at his goals in training, the one shown last week, it was tremendous. Then see how he played first season with some of them goals without crowds, he looked great. Maybe it’s one of those things, where the crowd makes some players perform better but impacts other players and while Ollie’s general game is great…something re finishing is impacted. I still think if he played off a main striker it might help. We still get his attributes, less pressure on him to score, may benefit him and thus us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 hour ago, nick76 said: That may just be the point….crowds! Look at his goals in training, the one shown last week, it was tremendous. Then see how he played first season with some of them goals without crowds, he looked great. Maybe it’s one of those things, where the crowd makes some players perform better but impacts other players and while Ollie’s general game is great…something re finishing is impacted. I still think if he played off a main striker it might help. We still get his attributes, less pressure on him to score, may benefit him and thus us. You will never be a top striker if you cant play in front of crowds. He was tearing it up for brentford before us so seems a bit odd he cant cut the mustard with crowds here 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 hour ago, nick76 said: That may just be the point….crowds! Look at his goals in training, the one shown last week, it was tremendous. Then see how he played first season with some of them goals without crowds, he looked great. Maybe it’s one of those things, where the crowd makes some players perform better but impacts other players and while Ollie’s general game is great…something re finishing is impacted. I still think if he played off a main striker it might help. We still get his attributes, less pressure on him to score, may benefit him and thus us. You can't take the highlights of a 2 minute training YouTube video (where he features probably twice) and use that for evidence that he can 'do it in training' but not in front of crowds! If you saw his Villa career highlights you'd see plenty of good finishes in front of crowds. That's how highlights work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 he isn’t in the “elite” bracket the only players in the elite out and out strikers brackets are Lewandowski, Benzema, Haaland and Kane . Ollie only has 5 less goals overall in the premier league than Mitrovic and that’s in 30 less games. Heck Danny Ings only has 68 goals in 190 appearances. I would say Ollie is on course to being our all time record goal scorer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, gwi1890 said: he isn’t in the “elite” bracket the only players in the elite out and out strikers brackets are Lewandowski, Benzema, Haaland and Kane . Ollie only has 5 less goals overall in the premier league than Mitrovic and that’s in 30 less games. Heck Danny Ings only has 68 goals in 190 appearances. I would say Ollie is on course to being our all time record goal scorer. Prem era maybe. No chance to break Billy Walker record. 244 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 minute ago, The Fun Factory said: Prem era maybe. No chance to break Billy Walker record. 244 goals. We all should know by now that Football doesn’t exist pre 1992 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 26 minutes ago, Rolta said: You can't take the highlights of a 2 minute training YouTube video (where he features probably twice) and use that for evidence that he can 'do it in training' but not in front of crowds! If you saw his Villa career highlights you'd see plenty of good finishes in front of crowds. That's how highlights work. Well I was trying to defend him a bit by saying he can do it (unlike me to defend Ollie) but if that isn’t good enough then so be it. As for the Villa career highlights, does that matter when I’ve watched every minute of his competitive games for Villa and can say his misses far outweighs his few good finishes on a highlights video. Can’t win when I defend him, can’t win when I criticise him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 49 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: You will never be a top striker if you cant play in front of crowds. He was tearing it up for brentford before us so seems a bit odd he cant cut the mustard with crowds here Yeah but his time at Brentford was in the league below,, a different level of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 8 minutes ago, nick76 said: Well I was trying to defend him a bit by saying he can do it (unlike me to defend Ollie) but if that isn’t good enough then so be it. As for the Villa career highlights, does that matter when I’ve watched every minute of his competitive games for Villa and can say his misses far outweighs his few good finishes on a highlights video. Can’t win when I defend him, can’t win when I criticise him I was only saying it was a weird comment to make. He's finished well in games. He's finished well in training. He's also missed in games, and I'm sure he's missed in training, but we'll never see that. None of it has much weight to what you were speculating that he can't do it in front of crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Just now, Rolta said: I was only saying it was a weird comment to make. He's finished well in games. He's finished well in training. He's also missed in games, and I'm sure he's missed in training, but we'll never see that. None of it has much weight to what you were speculating that he can't do it in front of crowds. Explain to me why he was so good first season at finishing but since has really struggled with that part of the game. Forget chances created for him because we know Grealish created more chances but that first season when Ollie got a chance you’d put your house on him to score but now I’d put my house on him to miss. It’s the only thing missing from his game, he will still score goals but he’s missed so many that it feels that he’s a whisker away from his current midtable level striker to being a top striker. It’s obviously not crowds most likely unless it’s psychological but something has changed from that first season to the subsequent seasons. He just doesn’t have the same composure, confidence or something he had that first season when he gets a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 53 minutes ago, gwi1890 said: he isn’t in the “elite” bracket the only players in the elite out and out strikers brackets are Lewandowski, Benzema, Haaland and Kane . Ollie only has 5 less goals overall in the premier league than Mitrovic and that’s in 30 less games. Heck Danny Ings only has 68 goals in 190 appearances. I would say Ollie is on course to being our all time record goal scorer. He's not only not in the 'elite' bracket, he's also nowhere near it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 36 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yeah but his time at Brentford was in the league below,, a different level of quality. Like Toney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Like Toney? I don’t understand the point this is making in context to the discussion being had. It’s not an argument that Championship is a lower level to the PL surely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Villa have a very specific set of players where if we were in a crowd less environment we'd be coming for Madrid's CL record. This is facto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, nick76 said: Explain to me why he was so good first season at finishing but since has really struggled with that part of the game. Forget chances created for him because we know Grealish created more chances but that first season when Ollie got a chance you’d put your house on him to score but now I’d put my house on him to miss. It’s the only thing missing from his game, he will still score goals but he’s missed so many that it feels that he’s a whisker away from his current midtable level striker to being a top striker. It’s obviously not crowds most likely unless it’s psychological but something has changed from that first season to the subsequent seasons. He just doesn’t have the same composure, confidence or something he had that first season when he gets a chance. He always missed chances. I am a fan, but it's also just a part of his game. Go back and look at the goals he scored in his first season. I just had a quick look and there were 9 tap ins, 1 penalty, a couple of pretty scuffed finishes/not great finishes, and about 3 good finishes. He missed a tap in on Saturday—so what. Players miss easy chances. Anyway, I'll leave you to it. Edited February 6, 2023 by Rolta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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