allani Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, KMitch said: I don't think he's underrated by the fanbase... I think most of us know exactly who he is: an extremely athletic runner with phenomenal work rate and pace, but with average finishing and below average touch/decision making. He's a mid-table starting striker or a bench option for a top 6 side. When he's playing well, he's great. When he is having an off day, we may as well be playing with 10 men. I think that is a bit harsh. At the risk of causing a meltdown on here - I can see Emery playing him as more of a 10 than a 9. We keep all the good stuff - work rate, pace, engine, running, pressing, etc and we're less impacted by the touch / decision making in the box. A kind of modern day Sheringham (for the sake of clarity I am in no way suggesting that there is any similarity in terms of playing style / attributes / etc between Ollie and Teddy - completely different types of players) i.e. someone who you don't rely on to score but when he's playing alongside Shearer he can suddenly score for fun because the opposition CBs are now too worried about his strike partner and so give him the chance to slip in unnoticed and stick the ball in the back of the net. Edited January 21, 2023 by allani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said: Wonder if being the main man will give him a boost? I always thought that the Ings signing put his nose out of joint I have the polar opposite view. I think that he'll be better if he isn't the main man and can focus on what he does really well. The partnership with Ings never really worked but I think that is because we failed to find a way to make it work. With Emery being less rigid in terms of positions I think he'll find a way of accommodating Ollie and a player whose a more natural goal-scorer. Edited January 21, 2023 by allani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said: Wonder if being the main man will give him a boost? I always thought that the Ings signing put his nose out of joint Oh and I think having a proper manager and coach will give him a boost too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinRichardsonsMoustache Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, allani said: I have the polar opposite view. I think that he'll be better if he isn't the main man and can focus on what he does really well. The partnership with Ings never really worked but I think that is because we failed to find a way to make it work. With Emery being less rigid in terms of positions I think he'll find a way of accommodating Ollie and a player whose a more natural goal-scorer. That’s a good take. Maybe the attention messes with his composure? My first response is always to assume these guys are egomaniacs when that’s probably my own bias (and jealousy) taking. I am confident that the manager has the right read on him! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, lexicon said: Jesus Christ Did he steal your wife or something? He's far from perfect mate. Just pointing that out. I don't hate the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, lexicon said: Apparently he's not a 'top level striker'. No shit - how on earth do these people think we'd have Haaland or Mbappe in our ranks?! There's one hell of a gap between Watkins and Mbappe/Haaland. Ridiculous point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 If he plays his part in us finishing in the top half I could not care less about how many goals he scores. How many chances did he get today? I'd sooner criticise Ramsey/Buendia/Bailey than Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said: That’s a good take. Maybe the attention messes with his composure? My first response is always to assume these guys are egomaniacs when that’s probably my own bias (and jealousy) taking. I am confident that the manager has the right read on him! If Ollie is any good* then he's got the best opportunity of proving it under our current manager. *PS - just in case anyone reads that the wrong way I am NOT suggesting he isn't any good. My point is that none of our players can now have the excuse that failure to deliver is down to the system, the manager or anything like that (apart from maybe injury). If there is something there then Emery will find it and extract it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, AV82 said: If he plays his part in us finishing in the top half I could not care less about how many goals he scores. How many chances did he get today? I'd sooner criticise Ramsey/Buendia/Bailey than Watkins. The funny thing is, Watkins rarely makes intelligent runs off defenders. It limits what Buendia's game is all about so much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, allani said: I have the polar opposite view. I think that he'll be better if he isn't the main man and can focus on what he does really well. The partnership with Ings never really worked but I think that is because we failed to find a way to make it work. With Emery being less rigid in terms of positions I think he'll find a way of accommodating Ollie and a player whose a more natural goal-scorer. I agree with this entirely, and also think it's poor to leave us so short of options that a player knows they can't realistically be dropped. Ideally, every single player should be looking over their shoulder at the guy about to take their place if they don't keep performing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Ollie Watkins is a flawed player, like pretty much everyone in the squad bar Martinez and Kamara. But he also has plenty of strengths. We have a manager now who knows how to exploit a player’s strengths and (to some extent) hide their weaknesses. I don’t know why the argument always turns into is he shit or is he class, when he’s obviously a classic mid table player. What I do disagree with is the post above saying he has something of the Sheringham about him. Absolutely not, Sheringham was a slow, composed player with great feet, and a very good finisher… only similarity with Watkins is in the air. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, Tom13 said: There's one hell of a gap between Watkins and Mbappe/Haaland. Ridiculous point! Yes, as those players are the best in the world. Please let us know who you think would replace what Ollie brings to the team as a whole and is both affordable and obtainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, lexicon said: Yes, as those players are the best in the world. Please let us know who you think would replace what Ollie brings to the team as a whole and is both affordable and obtainable. With respect though, it isn't the job of any of us on VT to identify those targets. The club puts a huge amount of time, energy and resources into scouting, if we are to accept its impossible to identify a single obtainable striker who might feasibly be an update on Watkins, then we may as well cut back on scouting and save a bunch of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, lexicon said: Yes, as those players are the best in the world. Please let us know who you think would replace what Ollie brings to the team as a whole and is both affordable and obtainable. This is the thing. There are a handful of these elite centre forwards like Haaland, Kane, Lewandowski, Benzema, and then there’s a real dearth of talent beyond that because it’s a position a lot of clubs do without now. Mbappe, Salah, etc are a different profile of player. More like what Bailey is meant to do for us. I’m sure there are some better players in between, but it’s not obvious who’s available. I’d be hanging on to Watkins next season, but making him fight for his place with someone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Just now, icouldtelltheworld said: With respect though, it isn't the job of any of us on VT to identify those targets. The club puts a huge amount of time, energy and resources into scouting, if we are to accept its impossible to identify a single obtainable striker who might feasibly be an update on Watkins, then we may as well cut back on scouting and save a bunch of money Yeah but there are only so many top players in the world, it’s not like we’re going to unearth someone in Timbuktu. Whoever we sign will be known to someone on here, unless it’s a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Ollie Watkins is a flawed player, like pretty much everyone in the squad bar Martinez and Kamara. But he also has plenty of strengths. We have a manager now who knows how to exploit a player’s strengths and (to some extent) hide their weaknesses. I don’t know why the argument always turns into is he shit or is he class, when he’s obviously a classic mid table player. What I do disagree with is the post above saying he has something of the Sheringham about him. Absolutely not, Sheringham was a slow, composed player with great feet, and a very good finisher… only similarity with Watkins is in the air. PS - I wasn't suggesting that he is anything like Sheringham in terms of his attributes / skills / playing ability. My point was more that Sheringham was a good player who would score a few goals - but he became a very good player who scored more goals when he was playing with a goal scorer. There's no obvious example that I can think of in terms of who Ollie would be like. But I just think he'd do well playing alongside a goal scorer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said: With respect though, it isn't the job of any of us on VT to identify those targets. The club puts a huge amount of time, energy and resources into scouting, if we are to accept its impossible to identify a single obtainable striker who might feasibly be an update on Watkins, then we may as well cut back on scouting and save a bunch of money Or just get a back up/rotation younger option like they did with Duran. I would venture that not being able to suggest a single person reflects well on Ollie and basically is proving the point I'm trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 I bet a lot of teams would love to have Watkins leading the line for them. Touch wood he's hardly ever injured. Runs for 95 minutes. How much money have the likes of chelsea and Liverpool spent on forwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervillan78 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Thought he was pretty decent today, really took his goal well. Hopefully he can kick on now and have a strong finish to the campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, lexicon said: Or just get a back up/rotation younger option like they did with Duran. I would venture that not being able to suggest a single person reflects well on Ollie and basically is proving the point I'm trying to make. Perhaps, but in my case I don't watch any football outside the PL, SPL and the League of Ireland, nor have I ever played Fifa or Football Manager, so I'm hardly going to be reeling off a list of examples. There are highly paid professionals at the club whose job it is to do that. I don't think Watkins needs upgrading just yet, but IMO he will need to be replaced in the first team for us to make the next step up. I'd love him to prove me wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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