Generic Virus Thread

[villakram]

Those most at risk and those attending your typical concert are not overlapping groups. Covid in and of itself is not dangerous for the majority of people. Some common sense needs to be applied given the obvious success of the ongoing vaccination campaign.

[LondonLax]

It’s funny how the right wing governments and their supporters like to talk of being the party of freedom and accuse the left of being ‘Marxists’ who hate freedom but it’s the same right wing governments who bring in bans on protests and a requirement to show your papers when going to the pub etc. Orwellian doublespeak. 

[chrisp65]

15 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

From what I've read the government seems to be flagging that they're targeting events, rather than everyday activities like visiting gyms or supermarkets (should have been more specific about that in my original post). It's not a perfect distinction but it seems to be what they're signalling.

I don't think private events can realistically be captured by this, because you can't police big family gatherings. Hence why weddings also wouldn't be covered, but events like gigs or football matches would be, etc.

C’mon, you must have read that back and realised it makes no sense?

I could meet more relatives at a wedding than at the last gig I went to. Or, let’s put it another way, the last gig I went to was in a shop. So the i.d. Rules would suggest I could now hang around in that shop for half a day, then, just before the music starts, I’d have to prove I didn’t have covid as music would make exactly the same people in exactly the same place suddenly dangerous? But then becomes less dangerous if all the people are related by marriage?

It’s bullshit.

 

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

It’s funny how the right wing governments and their supporters like to talk of being the party of freedom and accuse the left of being ‘Marxists’ who hate freedom but it’s the same right wing governments who bring in bans on protests and a requirement to show your papers when going to the pub etc. Orwellian doublespeak. 

Same with taxation and profligate spending too

[Xela]

2 hours ago, maqroll said:

Are most Villatalkers still waiting to get their jabs?

I think we're pretty much working through the 40-50 age group now

I have mine on Saturday, i'm 41. 

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

If I need i.d. and proof of medical history for something like music, why am I ok to go to Lidl or get a haircut without i.d.?

Because, you know, actual qualified scientists have deduced using their scientific knowledge and studies that it's far more risky. 

We're back to the man in the street here deciding that they know better than the scientists how Covid spreads and what the risks are. 

The only thing you can be sure of is they haven't closed the leisure industry down for shits and giggles, though for some reason people think they have. 

It's extremely unpopular vote losing activity, it's costing them eye-watering amounts of cash in lost tax and furlough payments.  They are classing it differently for damn good reason. 

[The Fun Factory]

23 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

It’s funny how the right wing governments and their supporters like to talk of being the party of freedom and accuse the left of being ‘Marxists’ who hate freedom but it’s the same right wing governments who bring in bans on protests and a requirement to show your papers when going to the pub etc. Orwellian doublespeak. 

They are the party of freedom for the right sort of chaps who vote for them. The rest can go swivel.

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, sidcow said:

It's extremely unpopular vote losing activity, it's costing them eye-watering amounts of cash in lost tax and furlough payments.

It really isn't you know. Joe public, the average man in the street, doesn't go to gigs and as for the furlough payments... most of the staff in this particular industry are either zero hours contracts or self-employed / short term contract type people and they've literally had to get other jobs, no furlough scheme in most small venues. The music Industry support staff and musicians themselves have been absolutely forgotten in all of this. The arts, apart from a few prime venues have actually been totally dicked over by the government in this.

[chrisp65]

8 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Because, you know, actual qualified scientists have deduced using their scientific knowledge and studies that it's far more risky. 

We're back to the man in the street here deciding that they know better than the scientists how Covid spreads and what the risks are. 

The only thing you can be sure of is they haven't closed the leisure industry down for shits and giggles, though for some reason people think they have. 

It's extremely unpopular vote losing activity, it's costing them eye-watering amounts of cash in lost tax and furlough payments.  They are classing it differently for damn good reason. 

 

Show me the science where 2,000 people sat on a beach 2 metres apart or queueing for chips are safe but 300 people in a 2,500 seat outdoor stadium 2 metres apart watching football are at risk.

Show me the science that says a record shop is only dangerous if there is live music playing and you’re not married.

I’m not claiming greater expertise, I’m saying educate me, show me the science.

 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, fightoffyour said:

Spread it to who? Everyone else there will have been vaccinated.

I think things would be different if it were not for the variants which seem to be more vaccine resistant. 

I mentioned the other day on here that it had gone a bit quiet about those after the initial reports where they were tracking down the couple of known cases. 

They finally released some stats today on that (maybe they always do but I've not seen them) 

So there are currently 469 cases of the South African and 32 of the Brazil.  The South African one has doubled since last week.  I would say that Genie is now out of the bottle.

If you look at how quickly Covid exploded from the first odd few cases to hundreds then thousands it was frighteningly quick. 

These variants are known to be more resistant to Vaccines.  They are also likely to mutate further, possibly to an extent where they are even more vaccine resistant. 

New Vaccines are out from around October to take care of these variants. You would think that booster jab will be rolled out quickly, hopefully all done by Jan/Feb next year. 

So what they are trying to do is to open everything up but still stop the new variants from really taking hold. That's why it's still important to curb the virus even if everyone is vaccinated. 

You would hope that by Jan/Feb they will get to the stage that they've caught up with the mutations, suppressed Rona in the main, and can then just go for annual vaccinations for the at risk groups keeping ahead of new mutations like they do with flu. 

We're still at the point where we are behind the mutations, not ahead of them.

[sidcow]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

Show me the science where 2,000 people sat on a beach 2 metres apart or queueing for chips are safe but 300 people in a 2,500 seat outdoor stadium 2 metres apart watching football are at risk.

Show me the science that says a record shop is only dangerous if there is live music playing and you’re not married.

I’m not claiming greater expertise, I’m saying educate me, show me the science.

 

Ask Chris Whitty not me, I believe you can apply to ask questions. 

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

Ask Chris Whitty not me, I believe you can apply to ask questions. 

Ah, so it turned out you were the man in the street.

[sidcow]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

Ah, so it turned out you were the man in the street.

Yes, I'm the man in the street not questioning the scientists as I'm not qualified to.  You are correct in that. 

Now if I saw the Government spouting some shit about insurance clauses* I would be all over it like a fat kid on cake. 

* Incidentally there has been some hugely misleading comments made by both Government and the press about the extent that insurance policies respond to Covid and the effect of the recent High Court case that insurers lost but that's probably one for The Boring Thread. 

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

We're still at the point where we are behind the mutations, not ahead of them.

We will never be at a point where we have predicted the next mutation.

There may and I stress may be a new type of vaccine, that is possibly more mutation resistant. I believe there is at least one team in the UK working on this (Nottingham or was it Cardiff, I forget) but that will be some way off

It seems the discussion on here has gone from, it's only until everyone is vaccinated (which quite frankly was always rubbish) to when we've got ahead of the mutations (ante-post favourite - never at 2-11)

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

We will never be at a point where we have predicted the next mutation.

There may and I stress may be a new type of vaccine, that is possibly more mutation resistant. I believe there is at least one team in the UK working on this (Nottingham or was it Cardiff, I forget) but that will be some way off

It seems the discussion on here has gone from, it's only until everyone is vaccinated (which quite frankly was always rubbish) to when we've got ahead of the mutations (ante-post favourite - never at 2-11)

Yeah, OK the mutation has to have actually occurred, but with the Flu vaccine they are caught early before they've taken hold, and not really in circulation during the summer months and then they start vaccinating for them in around September. 

The current mutations have been out and in circulation for months already (OK not so much in the UK but certainly globally) 

So we start vaccinating for them in October and they will already be looking for new variants and developing the next Vaccine for September 2022. The idea being that the shots are already in people's arms before the strain actually hits the UK in Winter 2022.

We will then be in a similar annual vaccination cycle like for Flu. 

Occasionally they miss a strain, the Flu Vaccine from a few years ago didn't work very well because they completely missed the strain of flu which became the dominant strain. 

I am assuming in all this they are only going to be vaccinating the most at risk in future years. They surely can't look to vaccinate the entire population annually. 

What fun and games there will be if they do an MMR type joint Flu and Covid single shot jab in future.  The Anti Vaxxers will have a field day. 

[snowychap]

33 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Yes, I'm the man in the street not questioning the scientists as I'm not qualified to.

You don't have to be 'qualified' to sensibly and relevantly pose questions.

Edited April 5, 2021 by snowychap

[sidcow]

6 minutes ago, snowychap said:

You don't have to be 'qualified' to sensibly and relevantly pose questions.

Fine, like I said ask questions, but ask Chris Whitty why that is his advice.  I'm sure he will give a comprehensive answer. It will be him and his team who have made the recommendation and I'm sure it's based on scientific reasons. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by sidcow

[bickster]

18 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Fine, like I said ask questions, but ask Chris Whitty why that is his advice.  I'm sure he will give a comprehensive answer. It will be him and his team who have made the recommendation and I'm sure it's based on scientific reasons. 

There’s a major flaw here already. What Whitby thinks and what Government does are not always the same thing.

Is there a Whitty quote on Vaccine passports and the reopening of entertainment venues?

I'll give you a clue, Johnson Presser, 20th Feb 2021. The Prime Minister himself asked Whitty. You won’t find a meaningful word uttered as the response. Whitty considers the decision political and not scientific was the consensus opinion of the journalists present.

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

There’s a major flaw here already. What Whitby thinks and what Government does are not always the same thing.

Is there a Whitty quote on Vaccine passports and the reopening of entertainment venues?

I'll give you a clue, Johnson Presser, 20th Feb 2021. The Prime Minister himself asked Whitty. You won’t find a meaningful word uttered as the response. Whitty considers the decision political and not scientific was the consensus opinion of the journalists present.

It's difficult to think of a political reason why they would deliberately shut down the leisure sector for no good reason.  

[bickster]

Just now, sidcow said:

It's difficult to think of a political reason why they would deliberately shut down the leisure sector for no good reason.  

Lefty scum?