Generic Virus Thread

[Genie]

21 minutes ago, snowychap said:

No, it isn't.

A claim about their vaccination status by someoone called 'Bickster' may show up on someone else's phone when they access this thread on this website.

That data isn't 'stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members'; how many of those people know who 'Bickster' is?; how many of us know that Bickster actually exists?; how is that vaccination claim verified/verifiable?.

So, no: his 'vaccination status' is not currently stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members.

Well I can view it in my phone same as any other member of the site. I don’t know who he is but I do know his name, job, home city, age, date of birth, favourite football team etc.

The point is, there is far, far more personal information in the public domain, shared voluntarily than a basic app with yes/no against vaccination status. A piece of information most people have openly shared (including Bicks). 
Getting all upset and righteous about this particular bit of information being voluntarily shared again is silly. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Genie

[bannedfromHandV]

7 minutes ago, Genie said:

Well I can view it in my phone same as any other member of the site. I don’t know who he is but I do know his name, job, home city, age, date of birth, favourite football team etc.

The point is, there is far, far more personal information in the public domain, shared voluntarily than a basic app with yes/no against vaccination status. A piece of information most people have openly shared (including Bicks). 
Getting all upset and righteous about this particular bit of information being shared is silly. 

In your opinion.

Unverified data floating around the internet is not the same as strategically stored data centralised by the government.

It’s like the difference between having a conversation with friends down the pub vs being recorded in a police interview.

[Genie]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

In your opinion.

Unverified data floating around the internet is not the same as strategically stored data centralised by the government.

It’s like the difference between having a conversation with friends down the pub vs being recorded in a police interview.

It’s not like that at all, as that could get you locked up.

This is the exact same bit of information mentioned verbally to friends and family, posted on Internet forums, mentioned on Facebook, in the text messages, on a letter in the post, and email and then also potentially stored in a secure app if the person wishes.

I reckon the potential app is probably the most secure place that this information is kept since it was created. And nobody is telling anybody they have to use it or share it, but no, ITS AN OUTRAGE!

 

[sidcow]

My guess is millions will joyfully download the passport and happily go about their lives enjoying their new freedoms. 

A minority will refuse to use it to protect their secrecy and find something else to do with their time. 

The people will decide if this is an acceptable tech or not.  

Edited April 5, 2021 by sidcow

[SuperTed]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

My guess is millions will joyfully download the passport and happily go about their lives enjoying their new freedoms. 

A minority will refuse to use it to protect their secrecy and find something else to do with their time. 

The people will decide if this is an acceptable tech or not.  

The same minority who will express their disdain at the passports and the breach of their civil liberties . . . On Facebook 

[StefanAVFC]

This conversation shows how easy it is to slip into authoritarianism. 

Not just accepted but cheered on.

[Xela]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I doubt they would use wifi, probably just a QR code that you scan as you enter. 

What about people who don't want or have a smartphone? I'm playing devils advocate here but will they be banned from large scale events because they don't want to use a modern phone? 

I guess we'll hear more about the detail in due course. 

[bannedfromHandV]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This conversation shows how easy it is to slip into authoritarianism. 

Not just accepted but cheered on.

Gaslighting at its most effective.

[sidcow]

9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This conversation shows how easy it is to slip into authoritarianism. 

Not just accepted but cheered on.

Or it shows how easily some people can slip into paranoia.  I'm sane, it's everybody else whose mad. 

[sidcow]

9 minutes ago, Xela said:

What about people who don't want or have a smartphone? I'm playing devils advocate here but will they be banned from large scale events because they don't want to use a modern phone? 

I guess we'll hear more about the detail in due course. 

To be fair those kinds of people are starting to get marginalised in all sorts of areas lately.  Going to see The Foo Fighters might be the least of their difficulties with modern life. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

To be fair those kinds of people are starting to get marginalised in all sorts of areas lately.  Going to see The Foo Fighters might be the least of their difficulties with modern life. 

Indeed; 'going to the pub', on the other hand, might be a thing they were previously able to do.

[OutByEaster?]

How long do we think it would take to put an effective system of passport management into place? Three months? Six months? Something that could be operational for everyone in the country, and for every business or location? Something supported by clear legislation and authority that could be implemented by a restaurant seater greeter and understood by the customer? A year?

In three months time every adult that wants it will have been vaccinated. I'm sure there's some devil in the detail, but my broad understanding is that if there are eighty of you in a pub and two haven't been vaccinated, then those two people have made a choice, if that choice results in infection then those numbers aren't going to result in a rise in the R number and ultimately there won't be a material growth in case numbers as a result of people mixing together. There may be isolated cases of unvaccinated people developing symptoms as a result of being in enclosed spaces with lots of other people, but that risk is a decision they make, a personal choice that is unlikely to affect others. 

surely, by the time we get even the most rudimentary framework of a passport system in place it will be completely unnecessary, there will be no real medical or health benefit to having it, it'll be entirely a result of political posturing or intent or a desire to funnel public funds into the right corporate pockets.

 

[OutByEaster?]

For me, it's not so much about a data issue, Matt Hancock is handing that data out like sweets already, direct from the source - having to have my vaccine status on my phone is far less worrying to me than the deal he did to give Alexa full access to my health records (for free, he's not even making the country any money off it). The problem i have with passports is just a matter of practicality, it's a rubbish solution to a problem that shortly won't exist.

 

[sidcow]

6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Indeed; 'going to the pub', on the other hand, might be a thing they were previously able to do.

Which they can because going to the pub is not part of the vaccine passport system as proposed. 

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

how many of us know that Bickster actually exists?

Finally someone says what we're all thinking.

[Ingram85]

**** the Passports. Stupid idea. We get back to normal together. I’ve had both my jabs so I’m ready to head back out into the world again but I don’t want to yet as it’s not fair on those who haven’t had it through no fault of their own. Anyone who chooses not to have it for any reason other than medical is a word removed. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Ingram85

[fightoffyour]

18 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

How long do we think it would take to put an effective system of passport management into place? Three months? Six months? Something that could be operational for everyone in the country, and for every business or location? Something supported by clear legislation and authority that could be implemented by a restaurant seater greeter and understood by the customer? A year?

In three months time every adult that wants it will have been vaccinated. I'm sure there's some devil in the detail, but my broad understanding is that if there are eighty of you in a pub and two haven't been vaccinated, then those two people have made a choice, if that choice results in infection then those numbers aren't going to result in a rise in the R number and ultimately there won't be a material growth in case numbers as a result of people mixing together. There may be isolated cases of unvaccinated people developing symptoms as a result of being in enclosed spaces with lots of other people, but that risk is a decision they make, a personal choice that is unlikely to affect others. 

surely, by the time we get even the most rudimentary framework of a passport system in place it will be completely unnecessary, there will be no real medical or health benefit to having it, it'll be entirely a result of political posturing or intent or a desire to funnel public funds into the right corporate pockets.

 

This is exactly what I wanted to post last night, but you’ve done a much better job.

There’s no point in a vaccine passport because by the time the system is in place everyone will have been offered a vaccine, if not even both doses. Then if someone wants to come into a pub unvaccinated, why would the majority of people in there who are vaccinated care? And the risk of wider spread to the outside population, again mostly vaccinated, is almost negligible.

So what’s the point of it all? Well excuse the cynicism but yes it does simply stink of yet another opportunity to siphon off yet more public funds.

[HanoiVillan]

19 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Which they can because going to the pub is not part of the vaccine passport system as proposed. 

You obviously have more faith than I do about mission creep.

[limpid]

If you have the NHS app on your phone (not the NHS Covid19 app), it already shows your vaccination status.

View health record, medicines, acute.

Anyone want to borrow my NHS id to get into the pub? This is going to be another laughable exercise in government IT.

[Demitri_C]

And what happens if people resist then just stay at home or in the case of going abroad people just stay in uk? Airlines lose more money and then the industry goes under.

Same with foreign countries.  Lets take Cyprus for example, they rely heavily on tourism to make money. If they get 50% of what they usually do they are scrwed and will go into a massive recession.

I think they will try to do some some kind of covid passport, it will be a epic failure then they will say its all ok after a few years and you dont need it anymore.  Another waste of money and time