Generic Virus Thread

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Well pretty much everyone in the known Universe except you Bicks. 

That’s not true though is it

[bickster]

I’ve just heard on the radio that an OUTDOOR cinema is taking part in the pilot scheme

You can’t make this shit up

[OutByEaster?]

We're at over 60% of the adult population having had first vaccine already - by the time the gardens open in ten days time we should be at 70%. 

It seems to me pointless to introduce a scheme of vaccine passports that will be completely unnecessary by the summer.

 

[sidcow]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

That’s not true though is it

Well you could set up a poll.  I think there would be an overwhelming response that people want to get back to sports, cinema, concerts, theatres, comedy clubs, night clubs.  I don't know how to set up polls and frankly can't be bothered.  I think reading back through the last 20 or so pages would tell you most people are fed up now and feel enough is enough. 

Not to mention the financial cost of keeping them closed any longer which will probably see the whole industry decimated. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by sidcow

[OutByEaster?]

Of more concern on our health data is Matt Hancock selling it off to US companies behind our backs. 

We're already likely to be in a position where insurers will be able to take any health conditions you have into consideration when you renew you home/car insurance, so long as they pay Matt's dentist's wife's mate at US Data co.

 

[bickster]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

Well you could set up a poll.  I think there would be an overwhelming response that people want to get back to sports, cinema, concerts, theatres, comedy clubs, night clubs.  I don't know how to set up polls and frankly can't be bothered.  I think reading back through the last 20 or so pages would tell you most people are fed up now and feel enough is enough. 

Not to mention the financial cost of keeping them closed any longer which will probably see the whole industry decimated. 

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you said. You said business had to open which is completely different to loads of people on VT want business to open. Completely different

[bickster]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

Of more concern on our health data is Matt Hancock selling it off to US companies behind our backs. 

We're already likely to be in a position where insurers will be able to take any health conditions you have into consideration when you renew you home/car insurance, so long as they pay Matt's dentist's wife's mate at US Data co.

 

Well when governments do that... I’ve got no problem at all with vaccine passports at all

[sidcow]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you said. You said business had to open which is completely different to loads of people on VT want business to open. Completely different

I thought the will of the people was an important factor. Sorry. 

[HanoiVillan]

Chris Whitty changed his tone and emphasis a little last week:

Lockdowns ‘unlikely’ to happen again in the UK, says Professor Chris Whitty

'Lockdowns are unlikely to happen again in Britain as we learn to treat Covid-19 like flu, Professor Chris Whitty has said.

The UK’s chief medical officer said that the UK will need to learn to live with coronavirus as it is “not going to go away”.

Speaking on a Royal School of Medicine webinar, Professor Whitty said around 20,000 to 25,000 people died of flu three years ago and “no one noticed”.

Up until now society has chosen to deal with Covid in a certain way but it is “clear we are going to have to manage it,” Professor Whitty said.

He added that it was crucial to bring Covid deaths as low as possible, but cautioned that society would not tolerate being locked down to prevent comparable numbers of deaths to those from flu.'

more on link: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-lockdown-britons-covid-19-flu-prof-chris-whitty-b927622.html

It's good to hear someone in a position of authority in public health focus on allowing people to live their lives, and accepting that there will be a level of covid in society from now on, rather than pursuing a fantasy of complete elimination. However, more needs to be done to prepare the public for this outcome, and that needs changes to both policies and messaging.

Many current government policies and plans do not make sense for a world beyond vaccination, in which low levels of covid transmission are accepted and managed, rather than attempting to eliminate them. Specifically, mass asymptomatic testing, vaccine passports, and the test and trace infrastructure will not be needed beyond that point, and the government should not be spending large amounts of time designing programs that have an exceptionally short shelf-life but will be very hard to implement. 

Some people in this thread have asked what the alternative to vaccine passports is. The answer is to open things fairly and equitably, without vaccine passports, to all comers, and to do so in proportion to the declining risk from the virus and its potential threat to the healthcare system. They don't need to change their current timetable if they don't want, but they can do that current timetable without vaccine passports.

Creating a program of vaccine passports will further cement in the public's mind the idea that a successful covid policy is the elimination of risk from the virus. Whitty acknowledges that should not and cannot be the expectation, as it is not realistic. So do not create the program then.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by HanoiVillan

[chrisp65]

He’s probably right, but he’s not the UK’s Chief Medical Officer.

In fairness to the press, they’ve only had 13 months to get his job title right.

[Genie]

I think we’ll get to the point where Covid-19 exists in the population like flu does now, but we’re not at the stage yet where we can treat it like flu.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Genie

[sharkyvilla]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

We're at over 60% of the adult population having had first vaccine already - by the time the gardens open in ten days time we should be at 70%. 

It seems to me pointless to introduce a scheme of vaccine passports that will be completely unnecessary by the summer.

 

There's a difference between introducing a vaccine passport and trialling one.  It's not a bad idea to try events with and without them to see if they make any difference.  Even if not for Covid 19 but heaven forbid another virus breaks out in the future.

[mjmooney]

15 hours ago, blandy said:

Vaccine passports for travel abroad, I'm fine with. Like needing a visa to visit countries. It's up to a nation to set a precondition for people to enter that nation.

Vaccine passes for the internal UK, for Pubs etc. is, never mind the ideology, completely daft. The reason is practicality beyond anything else. I mean when don't the government screw up, when it comes to anything remotely technology based? Remember the Covid contact tracing app that Matt Hancock was going to introduce to save us all. Didn't get off the ground, did it?

So is it bits of paper? they can't be photocopied or forged can they?

Who's going to enforce it? Who's going to be the people working in the pubs? That's right, mostly younger people who haven't been vaccinated. Who's going to detect forgeries? Who's going to address the issue of people without smart phones and NHS apps? who's going to be able to tell the difference between an app and a screenshot of an app that says "safe". 

Unless you've got police on the door of every venue spending their whole time checking certificates and apps, it's unworkable. And of course it's unworkable because the Police can't and won't do that. Unless you wait until everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated, whether they chose not to be or were not able to be vaccinated or not it's very discriminatory, and after everyone but those who can't or won't be vaccinated, it's still highly discriminatory, and by that time the risk should, finger crossed, be really low of spreading or catching it anyway.

It's essentially unworkable and unfair.

I imagine they'll try and do it then!

Thanks, @blandy, saved me a lot of typing. Proof of vaccination is essential in some circumstances. For example, I'd make it mandatory for anyone applying for a job in a care home. But for getting into pubs and cinemas? Absurd. Forget the civil liberties argument - it's just impractical, unmanageable, unnecessary and a waste of time and money. 

[Demitri_C]

So i take it these covid passports for going somewhere in the uk will be in the form of a app?

Good luck with that at villa park where the wifi is a complete shambles!

[Genie]

17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So i take it these covid passports for going somewhere in the uk will be in the form of a app?

Good luck with that at villa park where the wifi is a complete shambles!

I doubt they would use wifi, probably just a QR code that you scan as you enter. 

[snowychap]

19 hours ago, Genie said:

Your vaccination status is currently stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members.

 

No, it isn't.

[Genie]

Just now, snowychap said:

No, it isn't.

Yes, it is. 

[bannedfromHandV]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

Yes, it is. 

Okay, what’s my vaccination status then?

[snowychap]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

Yes, it is. 

No, it isn't.

A claim about their vaccination status by someoone called 'Bickster' may show up on someone else's phone when they access this thread on this website.

That data isn't 'stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members'; how many of those people know who 'Bickster' is?; how many of us know that Bickster actually exists?; how is that vaccination claim verified/verifiable?.

So, no: his 'vaccination status' is not currently stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members.

Edited April 5, 2021 by snowychap

[mjmooney]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

No, it isn't.

A claim about their vaccination status by someoone called 'Bickster' may show up on someone else's phone when they access this thread on this website.

That data isn't 'stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members'; how many of those people know who 'Bickster' is?; how many of us know that Bickster actually exists?; how is that vaccination claim verified/verifiable?.

So, no: his 'vaccination status' is not currently stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members.

It's a fair point. And even if it were true, we VT members have no authority over anyone's lives, in the way that the government does.