Awol Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, Rolta said: https://elpais.com/sociedad/2021-01-29/el-contrato-con-astrazeneca-establece-que-debe-suministrar-vacunas-a-la-ue-desde-sus-fabricas-en-reino-unido.html "AstraZeneca tries to find the square of the circle. The pharmaceutical giant clings to technical explanations to justify the announced delay in the delivery of vaccines to the EU, but begins to admit that the contract signed - made public this Friday - forces it to make every effort to find solutions - in the plants from all over the world - so that as many doses as possible reach the European continent. The European Commission has finally published this Friday the vaccine supply agreement with the pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca, after an intense tug of war with the Anglo-Swedish multinational during the last week. The reading of the text clears in favor of Brussels one of the main points of controversy, after the company announced a decrease of up to 60% of its first delivery due to alleged failures in its European production plants. The fourth section of point 5 of the contract makes it clear that “AstraZeneca will dedicate the greatest reasonable effort possible to manufacture the vaccine in the production plants located in EU territory (which, for the purposes of this provision, will include those in the United Kingdom) ”. Brussels demanded that the pharmaceutical company divert part of the production on British soil to cover the demand on the continent, but the company has defended at all times that London signed its contract two months before and should receive the entire amount committed. The British Government has not yet published, and is reluctant to do so, the document signed with AstraZeneca." A not so black and white view from Spain. An alternative view anyway. The whole article is there if anyone wants to practice their Spanish. Edit: and don't forget this isn't 'The Evil EU' of Farage's nightmares, but a group of allied countries trying to get the vaccine they ordered for the sick and vulnerable like we are. Funny thing, contract lawyers all over twitter (admittedly in English) saying the EU Commission don’t have a pot to piss in, legally. I want us to help everyone in the world at cost, soon as we’ve taken care of our own. Ugly, old fashioned nationalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 29, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, LondonLax said: The EU (like the US and the U.K.) put money into the development of a wide range of vaccines including AstraZeneca. AZ is a Swedish company, it shouldn’t be surprising that they got EU funding even on a nationalist level (though that was not the criteria). Hold horses. The vaccine was developed by Oxford University. Once it was in development they then sought out partners to manufacture it, and chose British/Swedish Astrazeneca headquartered in Cambridge because British company Zeneca (former ICI pharmaceutical division) were the dominant partner of the merger with smaller Swedish company Astra AB. To say AZ is a Swedish company is plain wrong. It's primary listing is on London Stock Exchange with secondary listings on various stock exchanges including Sweden. It's as British as Cobra Beer. Edited January 29, 2021 by sidcow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 25 minutes ago, Rolta said: What did they actually do wrong? Can you explain? Because putting in an order and it not getting delivered seems to be an issue with the supplier. Here is a long read but worth it. Quote The Commission had offered to let the U.K. join its vaccine purchasing program, but London — with the reality of Brexit in its sights — had declined. Instead, the U.K. proceeded to ink its own deals. Beyond its homegrown Oxford/AstraZeneca jab, the government also inked deals for shots from BioNTech/Pfizer and — shortly after preliminary data came out — Moderna. But where it really pulled ahead was when it came to approving the jabs for deployment. Here is the link: https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted January 29, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, Rolta said: https://elpais.com/sociedad/2021-01-29/el-contrato-con-astrazeneca-establece-que-debe-suministrar-vacunas-a-la-ue-desde-sus-fabricas-en-reino-unido.html "AstraZeneca tries to find the square of the circle. The pharmaceutical giant clings to technical explanations to justify the announced delay in the delivery of vaccines to the EU, but begins to admit that the contract signed - made public this Friday - forces it to make every effort to find solutions - in the plants from all over the world - so that as many doses as possible reach the European continent. The European Commission has finally published this Friday the vaccine supply agreement with the pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca, after an intense tug of war with the Anglo-Swedish multinational during the last week. The reading of the text clears in favor of Brussels one of the main points of controversy, after the company announced a decrease of up to 60% of its first delivery due to alleged failures in its European production plants. The fourth section of point 5 of the contract makes it clear that “AstraZeneca will dedicate the greatest reasonable effort possible to manufacture the vaccine in the production plants located in EU territory (which, for the purposes of this provision, will include those in the United Kingdom) ”. Brussels demanded that the pharmaceutical company divert part of the production on British soil to cover the demand on the continent, but the company has defended at all times that London signed its contract two months before and should receive the entire amount committed. The British Government has not yet published, and is reluctant to do so, the document signed with AstraZeneca." A not so black and white view from Spain. An alternative view anyway. The whole article is there if anyone wants to practice their Spanish. Edit: and don't forget this isn't 'The Evil EU' of Farage's nightmares, but a group of allied countries trying to get the vaccine they ordered for the sick and vulnerable like we are. Sorry, Rolta. I am really sorry that you aren't yet seeing the number of vaccinations you had hoped for in Spain but the contract has been looked at in depth by quite a few it seems (you will see a few example feeds earlier on this thread). The "greatest reasonable effort" does not constitute an X by X date and is just that, a greatest reasonable effort to get the vaccinations moving. If their production means that the reasonable effort does not meet European expectations then there doesn't appear to be a lot that can be done by judicial means. I am no expert by the way (not by a long shot) so I could be wrong. I hope that you guys see your vaccination rate increase soon as for what it's worth, we ARE all in this together. The sooner we rid us all of this mess, the sooner we can get back to what we enjoy best - watching the football, having a few beers with friends and basically, starting to enjoy life again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, trekka said: Sorry, Rolta. I am really sorry that you aren't yet seeing the number of vaccinations you had hoped for in Spain but the contract has been looked at in depth by quite a few it seems (you will see a few example feeds earlier on this thread). The "greatest reasonable effort" does not constitute an X by X date and is just that, a greatest reasonable effort to get the vaccinations moving. If their production means that the reasonable effort does not meet European expectations then there doesn't appear to be a lot that can be done by judicial means. I am no expert by the way (not by a long shot) so I could be wrong. I hope that you guys see your vaccination rate increase soon as for what it's worth, we ARE all in this together. The sooner we rid us all of this mess, the sooner we can get back to what we enjoy best - watching the football, having a few beers with friends and basically, starting to enjoy life again. Well said, Trekka. Or in the words of the EU Commission: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Good news: the big bad, will eat us for breakfast EU, seems to be backing down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 29, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Awol said: Good news: the big bad, will eat us for breakfast EU, seems to be backing down. Edited January 29, 2021 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted January 29, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Awol said: Good news: the big bad, will eat us for breakfast EU, seems to be backing down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 29, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, trekka said: If going down the Simpsons route surely this is more appropriate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, sidcow said: Hold horses. The vaccine was developed by Oxford University. Once it was in development they then sought out partners to manufacture it, and chose British/Swedish Astrazeneca headquartered in Cambridge because British company Zeneca (former ICI pharmaceutical division) were the dominant partner of the merger with smaller Swedish company Astra AB. To say AZ is a Swedish company is plain wrong. It's primary listing is on London Stock Exchange with secondary listings on various stock exchanges including Sweden. It's as British as Cobra Beer. I know the history of the company but in all the chest beating nationalism it seems to be forgotten that it is an international company with research and development centres in Sweden and the US. It received funding internationally as well. As did the other vaccines being distributed in the U.K. and around the world. The way you read about it on social media you’d be excused for thinking it was a nationalised U.K. enterprise. The U.K. is entitled to first pick and if there’s any doses left over other nations should be grateful if they see some of them. The VillaTalk crowd are a pretty sensible bunch, I can only imagine how this argument is being played out on some of the grimier social media boards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, trekka said: we ARE all in this together There are plenty of posts in this thread that suggest this is not the case. Edited January 30, 2021 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted January 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, snowychap said: There are plenty of posts in this thread that suggest this is not the case. Just trying to inject a sense of togetherness We're all humans trying to get through this bloody thing after all. Edited January 30, 2021 by trekka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted January 30, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, trekka said: Just trying to inject a bit of togetherness Another vaccine ingredient they didn't tell us about FFS... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, snowychap said: There are plenty of posts in this thread that suggest this is very much not the case. I think most people are just flabbergasted and a bit defensive because we feel rather attacked for no reason. There is no problem and there was no problem until the EU out of nowhere started highly emotive and inflammatory actions which were very clearly politically motivated to apply pressure on The UK and drug companies. There are no baddies here but we are definitely not one of them. Edited January 30, 2021 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2021 I'm pretty sure there will be politics lectures in future which will examine this as a classic political error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, sidcow said: we feel rather attacked Who is this 'we'? 42 minutes ago, sidcow said: There is no problem There appear to be plenty of problems. Edited January 30, 2021 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, snowychap said: Who is this 'we'? There appear to be plenty of problems. Well YOU are the one who honed in on the comment "we ARE all in this together" and responded with the comment "there are plenty of posts in this thread that suggest this is not the case" so I foolishly assumed you meant us here on VT. In terms of problems, I agree there are (or were) plenty but my point is that none of them were of our making. There were not problems until the EU made them. Edited January 30, 2021 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 hours ago, sidcow said: Well YOU are the one who honed in on the comment "we ARE all in this together" and responded with the comment "there are plenty of posts in this thread that suggest this is not the case" so I foolishly assumed you meant us here on VT. I didn't 'hone ' in on a comment. I repled to something that another poster had said. I inferred that @trekka's 'we' wasn't people on VT but everyone on the planet given the kind of poster he is. I may have been wrong. If I wasn't then I thoroughly agree with him and it goes to further reinforce my sadness at the parochial views being commonly expressed. Even if I was wrong, your line about speaking on behalf of 'us here on VT'' would only work for a subset anyway, wouldn't it? 6 hours ago, sidcow said: in terms of problems, I agree there are (or were) plenty Nope, there still are and there still likely will be plenty. Even focussing on the spat between the UK and EU makes it somewhat of a parochial issue (and a vehicle for many to trot out well worn tropes rather than perceptive analysis) which rather ignores any other problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, snowychap said: Even focussing on the spat between the UK and EU makes it somewhat of a parochial issue (and a vehicle for many to trot out well worn tropes rather than perceptive analysis) which rather ignores any other problems. It isn’t for once a spat between the UK and the EU, that suggests the UK is in someway responsible when it clearly isn’t. The spat is between the EU and AZ, however they spat their collective dummy at not getting what they want and potentially being shown up and they lashed out wildly at the UK. They are now having to quickly climb down form that position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted January 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, snowychap said: I didn't 'hone ' in on a comment. I repled to something that another poster had said. I inferred that @trekka's 'we' wasn't people on VT but everyone on the planet given the kind of poster he is. I may have been wrong. If I wasn't then I thoroughly agree with him and it goes to further reinforce my sadness at the parochial views being commonly expressed. Even if I was wrong, your line about speaking on behalf of 'us here on VT'' would only work for a subset anyway, wouldn't it? Nope, there still are and there still likely will be plenty. Even focussing on the spat between the UK and EU makes it somewhat of a parochial issue (and a vehicle for many to trot out well worn tropes rather than perceptive analysis) which rather ignores any other problems. Shucks. Give me a hug, brother*. I did mean "we" as in everyone, not limited to VT. *Oh wait... Edited January 30, 2021 by trekka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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