snowychap Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Genie said: It was actually 3 weeks between getting the virus and needing hospital treatment (not death) of which could also be several weeks. I had something in the back of my mind about an average of 23 days between infection and carking it but if the above is the case then I guess that might extend my 'spike' worry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, LakotaDakota said: Honestly have nothing to hide/fear Yes, you do. That you don't know that you do or suppose that you don't is at the heart of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RimmyJimmer Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, bickster said: Well in, we're absolutely top of the European Charts - 980 - all time high! We should be proud 1 hour ago, bickster said: The UK figure is deaths in hospitals, not sure about the French figures Perhaps research them then before coming out with that nonsense...whatever your angle is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Jareth said: ONS stats, which are not widely available, have shown the announced daily figure to be approx 70% short of the true figure. So I think we're an about 1500 a day at least. It's a scandal that the figures are being manipulated - when this is over I so hope there will be an enquiry into this. That the ONS figure differs from the announced daily Health Department figure does not mean that the figures are being manipulated or that the Health Dept figures are intentionally short of the actual figure. There are differences in the reported numbers, the methodologies and how provisional the numbers are (the ONS numbers are still provisional as they may change in future data publications). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, Davkaus said: As we're having a lovely chat about the police, here's a fun one. You're not allowed in your front garden. Looks to me like she's stood a lot closer than 2 metres to him. She should fine herself. Shame the Rotherham police weren't so proactive when people were reporting all of those kids that were being groomed. This is a wider non-coronavirus issue. There's plenty of youtube (other video sites too) with police doing similar daft things like telling people not to film them from their own front garden and not understanding the law at all. I do have some sympathy with coppers on the beat if they don't know the law (they are not omniscient scholars of jurisprudence) but the attitude with which they sometimes try and project their opinion or feeling as the law is quite remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, snowychap said: Yes, you do. That you don't know that you do or suppose that you don't is at the heart of the problem. 15 minutes ago, snowychap said: I had something in the back of my mind about an average of 23 days between infection and carking it but if the above is the case then I guess that might extend my 'spike' worry. Given that it is now 24 days since i thought there was a fair chance i was going to croak from this and it still kinda feels like it may well be in the balance i really couldn't care less if someone if monitoring my every move. In fact i kinda wish they were right now so Bill Gates if you're reading and want to inject me with some of your tracking nanobots give me a call... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: i really couldn't care less if someone if monitoring my every move Here's the nub, though: If you choose to be 'monitored' then fine - that's up to you. You shouldn't get to 'choose' for me or ChrisP or Bicks or my mum or... Edited April 10, 2020 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: This is a wider non-coronavirus issue. There's plenty of youtube (other video sites too) with police doing similar daft things like telling people not to film them from their own front garden and not understanding the law at all. I do have some sympathy with coppers on the beat if they don't know the law (they are not omniscient scholars of jurisprudence) but the attitude with which they sometimes try and project their opinion or feeling as the law is quite remarkable. appears to be idiot copper but also guess there may be more to this. A house round the corner from me has chalked out a huge hopscotch grid all down the pavement, well over 20m long that extends into their garden. Went past earlier and there was 5 kids & 3 adults in and around the garden, Their next door neighbour & their kids were also sat in their garden and was obvious the kids were all playing together & the parents having a natter, The neighbour opposite them was also on their driveway with the kids again playing in the street. In reality they probably aren't doing anyone any harm but if 1 of them has it then there is a good chancwe that at least 14 of them have it now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: appears to be idiot copper but also guess there may be more to this. A house round the corner from me has chalked out a huge hopscotch grid all down the pavement, well over 20m long that extends into their garden. Went past earlier and there was 5 kids & 3 adults in and around the garden, Their next door neighbour & their kids were also sat in their garden and was obvious the kids were all playing together & the parents having a natter, The neighbour opposite them was also on their driveway with the kids again playing in the street. In reality they probably aren't doing anyone any harm but if 1 of them has it then there is a good chancwe that at least 14 of them have it now... If it's a gathering of people, the police can break up that gathering. That's very different from telling people that they have to 'remain inside'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 10, 2020 Renault F1 team are furloughing the majority of their UK staff. Be interesting to see if they get the same backlash as football clubs did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 25 minutes ago, snowychap said: That the ONS figure differs from the announced daily Health Department figure does not mean that the figures are being manipulated or that the Health Dept figures are intentionally short of the actual figure. There are differences in the reported numbers, the methodologies and how provisional the numbers are (the ONS numbers are still provisional as they may change in future data publications). Well I mean, yer know, France give a daily death figure which counts care homes - we don't count them. I wonder why... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Renault F1 team are furloughing the majority of their UK staff. Be interesting to see if they get the same backlash as football clubs did. Doubt it, Mclaren did the same a week ago, Williams & racing point have also done the same for large sections of staff. and F1 themselves (Formula one group) furloughed half of their 400 uk staff this week Edited April 10, 2020 by LakotaDakota 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 My wife's uncle died from Coronavirus tonight. We weren't close at all so this doesn't warrant sympathy. That said the only thing against him was he was 70. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Jareth said: Well I mean, yer know, France give a daily death figure which counts care homes - we don't count them. I wonder why... But you are comparing apples with mushrooms. There are (realtively) clear methodologies for the way the various figures in the UK are reported. There is a clear reason why the ONS figures are different from the Health Department figures and it is explained on the ONS site. It is not a conspiracy. Yes, figures may be massaged (in that I don't discount the possibility - not that I am saying they are) but the difference between the ONS figures and the Dept of Health figures doesn't say that this is so - it just says that they are reporting different figures. Edited April 10, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 10, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 10, 2020 More Police F**wittery Quote South Yorkshire Police has apologised for telling a family they were not allowed on their own front garden during the Covid-19 lockdown. Footage of the encounter in Eastwood, Rotherham, showed an officer ordering a couple and their young children to stay inside their two-bedroom terraced home. “The virus does not stop on your front gardens,” she warned. “A thousand people died yesterday, a thousand people.” Resident Daniel Connell posted the video on his Facebook page and said he and his partner were ”playing with two babies” three metres from the pavement. Indie (Includes actual footage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, snowychap said: But you are comparing apples with mushrooms. There are (realtively) clear methodologies for the way the various figures in the UK are reported. There is a clear reason why the ONS figures are different from the Health Department figures and it is explained on the ONS site. It is not a conspiracy. Yes, figures may be massaged (in that I don't discount the possibility - not that I am saying they are) but the difference between the ONS figures and the Dept of Health figures doesn't say that this is so - it just says that they are reporting different figures. France changed their reporting to include care homes - we have not chosen to follow suit. That's a choice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 3 hours ago, bickster said: Well in, we're absolutely top of the European Charts - 980 - all time high! We should be proud Just on how sketchy the NHS figures are for giving accurate daily totals, BBC reporting 720 of the deaths announced today occurred between the 1st and the 8th of April. Won’t make any difference in the final totals, but in terms of tracking the curve/peak situation you’d hope they have the real figures to hand - rather than those they can officially release once the administrative hurdles are crossed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, Jareth said: France changed their reporting to include care homes - we have not chosen to follow suit. That's a choice. It has been asked about in the daily press conferences. Several times. They've always been totally open about the differences. They're not hiding anything. They said the reason they don't use the ONS data is because there is a time lag because they get data from more places. The daily NHS data is quicker and they can give us a daily update. They said they choose to report the daily NHS figures so they can give everyone a timely, regular update showing the severity of the situation. It's apples vs apples every day and there is no lag. They said they said they're not ignoring the ONS data at all, and in fact will use it too. But that it's data better used retrospectively rather than proactively which they can use the data for. As @snowychap says, this doesn't mean any data isn't massaged. But there is no conspiracy. They have been totally open as to what figures they are using, which figures they aren't using, why they do it and what the differences are. There's plenty of reasons to have a dig at the government around this. This isn't one of them. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Awol said: Just on how sketchy the NHS figures are for giving accurate daily totals, BBC reporting 720 of the deaths announced today occurred between the 1st and the 8th of April. Won’t make any difference in the final totals, but in terms of tracking the curve/peak situation you’d hope they have the real figures to hand - rather than those they can officially release once the administrative hurdles are crossed. But that's how figures work. They change because all of the figures are provisional until the actual, definitive figures are in (and that may well be a few weeks down the road). As long as you're running with pretty close like for like stuff then that's the best you're going to get. We aren't all chipped like some barcoded supermarket produce such that the data can be relayed in real time. Edited April 10, 2020 by snowychap spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, snowychap said: But that's how figures work. They change because all of the figures are provisional until the actual, definitive figures are in (and that may well be a few weeks down the road). As long as you're running with pretty close like for like stuff then that's the best you're going to get. We aren't all chipped like some barcoded supermarket produce such that the data can be relayed in real time. Eh? I’d imagine that as part of standard reporting hospitals would record and submit the figures for who has died and of what on a daily basis to the ministry. As long as that’s happening the MoH will have a pretty accurate set of figures to do their real time modelling, which was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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