Ratings & Reactions: Chelsea v Villa

[terrytini]

13 hours ago, turvontour said:

But this is becoming the problem. If we dont take any points off the top half of the table teams then theres huge pressure on us in these games.

No there isn’t. That’s always been where our war will be won. And against those sides we are comfortably winning it.

Anything against the Top half helps, but isn’t essential.

We need 10/11 Wins, we’ve got 4. I’ll be amazed if we can’t Win 6 games against the bottom half having watched us play so well, so often. Even after playing 7 of the Top 10 away our goal difference hasn’t really struggled.

 

[terrytini]

12 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Chelsea have now lost at home against newly promoted teams once out of the last 56.

Tonight they fielded the world's most expensive goalkeeper, a left winger who cost £58m and an England international striker who scored 26 goals for us last season.

Kepa and Pulisic alone cost more than our entire starting XI.

Apparently "they were there for the taking"...

Well said

it’s all rather silly and very tiresome.

[zab6359]

I've just finished watching the game and to be be fair we didn't do to bad against a better team at there place, we were very close to them first half but they were just the better side second half. 

Take away points for me

• Wes was very poor why wasn't Kodj introduced I'm not a Kodj fan but Wes was a passenger.
• Trez apart from a bundled goal was crap, I reckon he had his first touch at 34 minutes (I must be wrong with that but that is what it seemed)
• Conor! I love him at times but another passenger, he should only start games we expect to have a lot of possession! Does nothing when we are under pressure.
• DL should be starting games.
• Heaton!!  Burnley were well and truly dry bummed!
• Marvelous to see Marvelous back in the side he should be starting every game we play, I don't know why he wasn't straight back in after the international break.

 

[lapal_fan]

I'm just adding to my bullet point list earlier on, but I thought Chelsea managed the game pretty well.  They made the pitch massive when they had possession in their own half.  Wesley would often chase (to his credit), but our wingers, Jack and Trez didn't put pressure on their full backs, and when they did, it was still 2 defenders vs Wesley anyway.  That sucked up further up the pitch, meaning their CM's could out number Nakamba.  McGinn and Conor were pretty passive when we didn't have the ball last night, although both chased around.  Maybe dropping 10 yards or pushing up 10 yards would have plugged the gaps?  That said, they had this neat trick (Willian especially) of getting the ball on the wing, coming back down their line, switching with their full backs and CM, meaning we often had 2 v 1's on our full backs (Targett and Elmo).  I think they had the most luck against Targett, who was locked into defensive duties against Willian and their LB.  

I think the worrying thing for Villa last night was that they had success through the middle and down the flanks, getting some good balls into the box.  

We had our spells of possession, but again, sometimes I wished we could slow the tempo a little, get closer to one another so our passes are less risky.  We're maybe a better team than we give ourselves credit for.  

But yea, Chelsea were very good last night. 

[NurembergVillan]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

If we played out of our skins to try and get a result I could accept this. The fact of the matter is. we had a lazy start, were sloppy with the ball, have a striker and a defender that isn't performing, you could probably include McGinn is those that is not performing like we have seen either. We are also to soft, rarely show fight and so inconsistent its worrying, something Smith keeps reiterating in his interviews after games. Everyone knows if we are on it, we can give any team a game, today it was too easy for Chelsea, they didn't really get out of first gear.

What's gonna be our excuse when Sheffield beat us??

I don't disagree with anything you've written there.

What I disagree with is the notion that if we'd played out of our skins "they were there for the taking".  I find the idea of that hugely disrespectful to what is a very good Chelsea team who play good attacking football.

[foreveryoung]

39 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

I don't disagree with anything you've written there.

What I disagree with is the notion that if we'd played out of our skins "they were there for the taking".  I find the idea of that hugely disrespectful to what is a very good Chelsea team who play good attacking football.

It's a very good Chelsea team I agree, but they were far from their best on the day. Which is why I feel we could have got the 3 points had we been on it.

[NurembergVillan]

14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

It's a very good Chelsea team I agree, but they were far from their best on the day. Which is why I feel we could have got the 3 points had we been on it.

I dunno.  Willian and Pulisic were sensational.  I can see why the former has been linked with Barcelona and Real Madrid, and why the latter cost so much money.

Their defence is clearly their weak point, but that brings us back to the whole Wesley / Trezeguet / AEG / Jota conversation again - are they good enough to really capitalise at this level.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, terrytini said:

“ Wake up and smell the coffee”.......we didn’t play to our best and lost 2-1 away at Chelsea a couple of days after playing Man United Away.

I’ve no idea what you’d rather I thought, but I’m not going to cry myself to sleep over that.

Of course the games are winnable...but some of you lot,, if you add up all the games we’ve let ourselves down we’d be top, it’s just ludicrous.

I expect it from some of the younger fans, but your constant highlighting of what’s wrong surprises me.

Its only constant, because we have done a fair bit of losing lately.....sure we have had some tough fixtures.....but some of the things I highlight have been in the other games too....Bournemouth,Burnley and West Ham.

you cannot keep brushing them under the carpet to fulfil your emotional fix.....its like an ostrich burying his head in the sand and thinking its all going to be alright.

I really don't want to be rude....but do you watch the game in full or just look for the good bits.....are you aware of our shortfalls or just choose to ignore them and call folk out for mentioning them.

We stood off last night for long periods of the game......did Chelsea's last 2 opponents stand off? where they lost, Chelsea were up for it, because they lost their last two, it was almost predictable, we would go in to our shell and let them dictate......Terry all these teams are good if you let them be, not just the top 6. We have to be up for it in every game to survive.

and whats the younger fans got to do with anything....its not about impatience or being fickle, its about doing the basic things right.......If there are things that we are doing that are clearly not right or sub standard, we cannot keep ignoring them as if it hasn't happened, we have to face up to our inadequacies and attempt to deal with them.

Mason Mounts goal was predictable.....How can you leave a player with his talent for shooting unattended....John McGinn was yards off him waiting for the champagne pass to come out of the ruck to get him on his way, instead of being touch tight on Mount.....Its avoidable if players concentrate on the job in hand instead of looking for glory all the time.

Things will not go away unless we make them go away.

I thought 4-3-3- last night was naive.....we haven't got the calibre of player to play 4-3-3 away from home and Hause should be in to give us some aerial competency.......We should have had 5 in midfield.........3-5-2...or 4-5-1......we lost the middle of the park on so many occasions is was clear we was going to concede, before we did.

Edited December 5, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

3 hours ago, terrytini said:

“Even me “.....I have no problem seeing poor play....I saw it a lot more clearly and a lot mor3 often than you did under the previous Manager

... and yes, 100% agree there were aspects that were poor. There have been in every game.  As for last night specifically I agree with everything you have said here.

However, there were good points aswell. Not enough. 
 I think the difference between us seems to be I fully expect us to be poor and at times and I’ve not seen enough, by a long way, to let it bother me.

If we repeated that performance regularly, and against bottom half teams, I’d be as critical as anyone.

Yes there was good points, our goal was well worked....not nearly enough though.

If we get in to the habit of playing like that ...We will struggle against the bottom teams, because they will be scrapping for their lives.

The reason I am so critical at times is, that some of the poor things we do are basic and avoidable.....I accept that Chelsea in general terms are a better team.......so was Liverpool when we beat then 5-1......and so was Bayern Munich in 1982......That line is an absolute cop out.

I am asking you to look carefully at the times we are out fought for headers and beaten in 50/50 challenges......That's not facing a better team, that's not being up for it and that is my main gripe on occasions.

[tinker]

3 hours ago, IrishVillain said:

 Chelseas press was incredible, made it really difficult to play out through, and was relentless. Hope we take lessons from that.

 

This. They pushed up as a unit and great stamina to maintain it, if your going to press then Chelsea showed us how. 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, terrytini said:

No there isn’t. That’s always been where our war will be won. And against those sides we are comfortably winning it.

Anything against the Top half helps, but isn’t essential.

We need 10/11 Wins, we’ve got 4. I’ll be amazed if we can’t Win 6 games against the bottom half having watched us play so well, so often. Even after playing 7 of the Top 10 away our goal difference hasn’t really struggled.

 

But defending, is part of playing well, its not one dimensional.

I think the danger is Terry and I am not trying to be controversial.....We have gone from being boringly cautious and uninspiring to too open and benevolent...too gift worthy.

I, like you, love the passages of play where Jack is in his pomp taking the game to the opposition and the team in support.....but take time out to see how open we are when we lose it and the work off the ball is like a few leagues below.....our positioning at time last night was woeful.

Edited December 5, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

20 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Not good enough, but I didn't think we would be.

Chelsea could've played Dennis Wise on the right wing, there was so much space down our left, and we just lack pace on the break which means in games where we're under sustained pressure there are no concerns for the opposition.

Wesley was isolated again, but did very little when the ball got anywhere near him.

Elmo had a decent game, and Douglas Luiz was our best outfield player once he came on.

Heaton man of the match for us.  Pulled off a couple of exceptional saves.

The commentators on Amazon were a pair of whoppers.

Pick Kodjia from the start against Leicester, please.  And Engels for Konsa.  And tell Mings to cut out all the Johan Cruyff bullshit.

well observed.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

I thought we played ok tbh.

Our goal was a brilliant bit of play.  Their goals were ok.  I thought Mount was good, despite being "shit" according to some on here.

Tammy wasn't quite fierce enough to score more than his single.

Jack had a quiet game, thought Elmo came in a delivered 3 really good balls.

Wes did some good things, some dopey, pants things.

Targett wasn't at his best offensively, but did ok at the back.

Nakamba did ok.

Luiz came on and looked a bit better than Conor, who had a quiet game.

Ming's nearly had his goal costing mistake, but got lucky.

McGinn actually got better towards the end, which is encouraging after a quiet spell.

Kinda wasn't at his best.  A bit passive for me tonight.

Trez did ok, got in a good position to score his goal.

Heaton did very well, I'm sure I even saw him come and claim a cross!  Great save from Willian too.

I thought Willian was probably the best player on the pitch. His little shimmy's and shoulder drops just get him out of trouble and buy him time.  A great PL player.

 

sorry, I thought Nakamba was out of position quite often.....I thought he was not so good.

I think he is a player who gets his foot in late, he doesn't read the game so well and gets dragged towards the ball too easily by ball watching it loses his position and he is late to recover.....too reactionary as opposed to being proactive........but quite a few were like that IMO

Willan was the best player on the pitch......imagine if Jack had that support.?

Edited December 5, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

20 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Thought we did okay - the better team definitely won on the night, but we kept them at it for the full ninety.

I thought Heaton was excellent, both Elmo and Targett did okay - I liked Konsa and thought he looked solid.

Twenty years ago I thought David James was as good a keeper as I ever saw for Villa for about 87 minutes a game - for the other three minutes he was a complete disaster - Mings is turning into a David James of a defender. Second half today he made three or four errors that could have cost us - it doesn't matter how good you are on the ball at the back, the best defenders are the ones who make the fewest errors. 

I didn't think Hourihane was bad, Grealish was decent without hitting the heights of recent weeks, McGinn was okay but just needs a moment of magic to lift him - I thought Nakamba was excellent throughout and Luiz did really well when he came on - our midfield will compete with anyone.

Trezeguet buzzes around and offers us some pace and a little dynamism - I think we're a better team when he plays - but he's prone to a bad decision from time to time - he does bring a little bit of goal threat at least.

Wesley was disappointing - there's no threat to his work, he's involved in physical battles with defenders but they're on the halfway line. There's a player in there but we could do with taking him out of the firing line for a bit, sadly we can't because Kodjia isn't good enough and Dimitri Sea is a million miles away. I'd be tempted in January, even through a loan.

Overall, we look tidy and organised, we can play, we press well, we can defend and we have a good keeper - but we look toothless at the business end. I think we'll beat the teams we're supposed to and that'll be enough to keep us up - but I really believe we're not too far from being better than that aim.

 

 

You thought Konsa was solid?......I thought he had a hand in conceding the 2 goals.....his ability to challenge in the air is suspect. I thought he was anything but dominant.

you're right about Mings and I thought Luiz did well when he came on.....I thought Hourihane and McGinn was below par and surrendered the initiative too easily.....McGinn is looking for the champagne pass and has forgot how to close down and come out with the ball like he was doing to get his reputation.

Heaton was Competent.....and Jack was, well trying to do it all and not having the support that Mount had.....I thought Trez baring his goal was ineffective and kept leaving the line, so no could find him with an outlet ball.

Chelsea are a fine side, who have just lost 2 so their tails were up.....we allowed them to find that extra initiative they needed to avoid a 3rd defeat.

I am not expecting us to win all these games against top 6 teams, but the odd one where we make them work harder for the ball would be nice.

just one indicator......I think we lost most of our headers from innocuous throw-ins, that helps you secure initiative and has a knock on effect, to other aspects of the game....it seems we lose out so often in those sort of duels.

They closed us down with aplomb whilst we stood off with indecision.

However to come away after that with the small crumb of comfort that we wasn't mullered, is something I guess......

I think 2-1 was not a true reflection of the way the  game. was played out.

It is amazing how some of us can see the game so differently.

Edited December 5, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, tinker said:

This. They pushed up as a unit and great stamina to maintain it, if your going to press then Chelsea showed us how. 

that's true.....but to press you have to work hard.

just running around the park is not working hard, I think some folk are misguided in what they are looking at.

Chelsea and the top teams work with purpose......being out of position and working to recover, is working unnecessarily and without purpose.

The amount of times last night, I thought our poor positional play, was our worst enemy.

[terrytini]

@TRO I’m not going to answer all that. You seem to have totally ignored that I acknowledged we were poor.

Of course I see the bad points...that’s the whole point, a child could see them, you aren’t unearthing something clever.

My point has been , is and will be, 9 months ago we were 10 th in the Championship. 
OF COURSE we can be poor.

OF COURSE we can be outplayed, outfought, out muscled, out headed, out thought.

OF COURSE we give away silly goals, fail to press advantages, miss opportunities.

And, OF COURSE it’s important the a Coach works on these things, and the Club looks to improve the squad.

Along with most other Clubs, and along with all promoted Clubs.

I can write your after match comments for the rest of the season, now.

Its just a stuck record.

Last night I had an interesting chat with a guy about the strengths and weaknesses in that performance of a couple of our players. We didn’t gloss over anything.  But we had the chat in the context of where we were as a Club, where we are, and where we hope to go.

We almost died 18 months ago. We were sleepwalking into another Championship Season just over a year ago. The rebuilding job has been huge. If we get relegated, it’d suprise few people in football....it’s common for Play Off Promoted teams to go back down.

Yet almost from game one, all you do is fault this, that and the other. 

Were we Man City under Pep, with years in charge and unprecedented money, it’d make sense.

Or Everton. Or Palace. But we are on Page One. Not Page 10, Page 40 etc.

[cbr600rr]

11 hours ago, Elton said:

It’s not quite that simple. You also need to swap Wesley’s service with Tammy’s service. They are a better team that’s why they won, not because of one better forward. In fact Tammy missed a quite a few easy chances last night.

its not possible to swap both players , however as tammy netted 26 for villa last year & is in the top scores in the top league now..

hence if he was at villa,,villa would have won .your only as good as your strikers,its a simple fact.

 

[terrytini]

Or to put it another way...

some think we are fallible, and shouldn’t be...

others think we are fallible, and it’s to be expected.

[Elton]

6 minutes ago, cbr600rr said:

its not possible to swap both players , however as tammy netted 26 for villa last year & is in the top scores in the top league now..

hence if he was at villa,,villa would have won .your only as good as your strikers,its a simple fact.

 

It’s simple alright but it’s not a fact.

[Paul33]

20 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

Why would he remotely do this? Kodjia is packing his bags alrready to leave in Jan. Another forward signing a must though in Jan even if just a loan.

Why ? Because an asthmatic Granny with heavy shopping would contribute more than Wesley does !

It isn't just about Wesley, he is the key outlet pass especially for away games where we are under the cosh. He's a lightweight and a lazy one too and his poor efforts are dragging down the entire team. We must have better options even if we blood a youngster !