AJ Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Good save, Matty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Not a penalty for me. Can understand why it was reviewed, but I think the ref has got it wrong. kinda one that looks more a pen at replay speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 21, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Not a penalty for me. Can understand why it was reviewed, but I think the ref has got it wrong. Agreed. It's not intentional and the hand isn't in an unreasonable position given what he was doing (leaping). It's an extremely soft penalty and that kind of decision-making process will end with at least 6 penalties per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, a m ole said: kinda one that looks more a pen at replay speed Not a chance. The handball rule (people always talk about "unnatural position" - this isn't stated anywhere) states that you have to (are meant to) be deliberately aiming to handle the ball. He's jumping and the ball is headed onto his hand/arm from like a yard away. Should never have been given. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Don't see how that was a "clear and obvious" error, unless the ref has asked them to check it. Think its extremely harsh myself, certainly didn't look like an intentional attempt to stop the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, bobzy said: Not a chance. The handball rule (people always talk about "unnatural position" - this isn't stated anywhere) states that you have to (are meant to) be deliberately aiming to handle the ball. He's jumping and the ball is headed onto his hand/arm from like a yard away. Should never have been given. that’s what I mean, the slow mo has almost tricked the ref making it appear more deliberate than it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 21, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, bobzy said: (people always talk about "unnatural position" - this isn't stated anywhere) states that you have to (are meant to) be deliberately aiming to handle the ball. I think the interpretation of the unnatural position is a subset of 'deliberately aiming'. What I mean is, if I put my hand straight out to my side (parallel with the ground) in anticipation of the ball going there, then I haven't aimed my hand at the ball, 'it was already there guv'. But clearly it doesn't belong there and I knew what I was at. Whereas if I see the ball going there and I react to it by making the same movement, then I've done much the same thing with the same result. Like what Carlos Sanchez did for Colombia. He almost did a goalkeeper's starfish, and got a red because his hand was somewhere it had no reasonable right to be. He didn't aim at the ball. It was already there when the ball arrived. It may not be explicit in the rules, but it is certainly implied and the rule is certainly implemented in that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 My issue with VAR is what its actual agenda is. Is VAR solely to keep the sport fair and to catch the things the referee misses? Or is it a system that allows a match to remain competitive at all times by "gifting" soft penalties? Those in charge of VAR have so much power to change the game whenever they want. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Penalty schmenalty. The apparent randomness of VAR calls is getting a bit annoying now. I think Jedinak has now scored the last 5 competitive goals for Australia! Nerves of steel from the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, BOF said: I think the interpretation of the unnatural position is a subset of 'deliberately aiming'. What I mean is, if I put my hand straight out to my side (parallel with the ground) in anticipation of the ball going there, then I haven't aimed my hand at the ball, 'it was already there guv'. But clearly it doesn't belong there and I knew what I was at. Whereas if I see the ball going there and I react to it by making the same movement, then I've done much the same thing with the same result. Like what Carlos Sanchez did for Colombia. He almost did a goalkeeper's starfish, and got a red because his hand was somewhere it had no reasonable right to be. He didn't aim at the ball. It was already there when the ball arrived. It may not be explicit in the rules, but it is certainly implied and the rule is certainly implemented in that way. It is, but it’s wrong. The Sanchez thing was a deliberate attempt to block a ball with his hand - this wasn’t. Quite interesting to hear in the ITV studio Bilic say “it doesn’t need to be deliberate” and Anuko say “his arm is clearly in an unnatural position”. Even the pros don’t know! MON is actually spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, BOF said: I think the interpretation of the unnatural position is a subset of 'deliberately aiming'. What I mean is, if I put my hand straight out to my side (parallel with the ground) in anticipation of the ball going there, then I haven't aimed my hand at the ball, 'it was already there guv'. But clearly it doesn't belong there and I knew what I was at. Whereas if I see the ball going there and I react to it by making the same movement, then I've done much the same thing with the same result. Like what Carlos Sanchez did for Colombia. He almost did a goalkeeper's starfish, and got a red because his hand was somewhere it had no reasonable right to be. He didn't aim at the ball. It was already there when the ball arrived. It may not be explicit in the rules, but it is certainly implied and the rule is certainly implemented in that way. Always how I've seen it as well. One of Robert Huth's party pieces in Leicester's title winning season was to dive into blocks with his arms out stretched, obviously making himself a much bigger obstacle, I lost count of the amount of times the ball would hit him on the arm. Not really doing my point much good thinking about it though as he got away with it the majority of the time! In regards to this game I don't think he's put his arm there "unnaturally" looks more a natural movement of the jump but who knows, certainly not clear and obvious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 21, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, bobzy said: The Sanchez thing was a deliberate attempt to block a ball with his hand - this wasn’t. Which is why we're both on the same side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Just now, BOF said: Which is why we're both on the same side I didn’t think we were arguing - same views 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 That penalty is a microcosm of everything that's wrong with video replays refereeing in a contact sport but I'll take the goal at this point! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Maybe there's a French chap doing the VAR for this group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, bobzy said: It is, but it’s wrong. The Sanchez thing was a deliberate attempt to block a ball with his hand - this wasn’t. Quite interesting to hear in the ITV studio Bilic say “it doesn’t need to be deliberate” and Anuko say “his arm is clearly in an unnatural position”. Even the pros don’t know! MON is actually spot on. MON, "What's he supposed to do, cut his arm off?". Totally right, ridiculous decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Man, Robbie Kruse is just rubbish every time I see him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 21, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2018 There's so much ambiguity with handballs. I mean how often does a player really "intentionally" handle a ball. Hardly ever. If it was truly down to intent then you would very VERY rarley get a handball given. I honestly think it should be the complete other end of the sepctrum. If the ball hits your hand, it's a penalty. If you didn't mean it then tough shit. That's the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Nice turn from Rogic. Shame it broke down. Nabbout has a pretty thankless task in this team doesn't he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 21, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: I honestly think it should be the complete other end of the sepctrum. If the ball hits your hand, it's a penalty. If you didn't mean it then tough shit. That's the game. I can see your point. It would at least remove the ambiguity and then everyone would know where they stand. Plus it wouldn't be any less fair than the current system where; let's be honest; bigger sides get the benefit of the doubt. 'Open to interpretation' always subconsciously lends itself to bias. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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