Israel, Palestine and Iran

[sidcow]

It's good of Benitez to get involved helping people into Egypt though.

[Jareth]

Surely there's a moment now where Israel's friends can say, come on, you've rightly killed all the Hamas bastards who invaded, you've flattened half of Gaza with munitions equivalent to a nuclear bomb, you still have the right to fly over rocket launch sites and bomb them again - and you're now going to have the sort of border Hamas will never ever be able to drive a bulldozer through again. Do you think you could take a breath? I mean - is that really unreasonable? 

[ml1dch]

36 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Surely there's a moment now where Israel's friends can say, come on, you've rightly killed all the Hamas bastards who invaded, you've flattened half of Gaza with munitions equivalent to a nuclear bomb, you still have the right to fly over rocket launch sites and bomb them again - and you're now going to have the sort of border Hamas will never ever be able to drive a bulldozer through again. Do you think you could take a breath? I mean - is that really unreasonable? 

With the proviso that Hamas return the remaining 200 or so hostages still in Gaza to their homes, I'd say not. 

But unless they're willing to do that, should Israel just leave them there indefinitely?

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

With the proviso that Hamas return the remaining 200 or so hostages still in Gaza to their homes, I'd say not. 

But unless they're willing to do that, should Israel just leave them there indefinitely?

Yeah it's not a great situation is it? You might say Hamas have already won this one - as much as that pains anyone. Israel are bombing and shooting and crushing Gaza - there ain't much nuance to their hostage fetching, quite a few have already been victims of their own side's weaponry. Israel are entirely justified to go get them - but what results have we seen so far in context of the amount of destruction and collateral death? Best results for those hostages if they can't be negotiated out of there, is a quick death. 

[ml1dch]

15 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Yeah it's not a great situation is it? You might say Hamas have already won this one - as much as that pains anyone. Israel are bombing and shooting and crushing Gaza - there ain't much nuance to their hostage fetching, quite a few have already been victims of their own side's weaponry. Israel are entirely justified to go get them - but what results have we seen so far in context of the amount of destruction and collateral death? Best results for those hostages if they can't be negotiated out of there, is a quick death. 

I agree, but that isn't really a position that Israel can take. Publicly, at least. 

[Mr_Dogg]

45 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Yeah it's not a great situation is it? You might say Hamas have already won this one - as much as that pains anyone. Israel are bombing and shooting and crushing Gaza - there ain't much nuance to their hostage fetching, quite a few have already been victims of their own side's weaponry. Israel are entirely justified to go get them - but what results have we seen so far in context of the amount of destruction and collateral death? Best results for those hostages if they can't be negotiated out of there, is a quick death. 

Israel are not killing every Gazan that moves and bombing the place to dust to rescue hostages.

[Tumblerseven]

20 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said:

Israel are not killing every Gazan that moves and bombing the place to dust to rescue hostages.

Oh come on now they have to demonize Israel somehow right?

[VILLAMARV]

I wouldn't have thought anyone would need to demonise Israel. Their own actions speak for themselves.

[Talldarkandransome]

On 31/10/2023 at 22:36, foreveryoung said:

Even to the my untrained eye, I can more than see ,that this time, Israel are getting completely out of hand, an our governments don't seem to  have the bottle to agree.

They will never say anything against Israel as its deemed as anti semitic. You can't even call them bad for doing something, that's anti semitic too.

I'm glad I'm not on social media cos I'd be in trouble a lot

[sne]

5 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

I wouldn't have thought anyone would need to demonise Israel. Their own actions speak for themselves.

Yeah I don't think they need a hand there. Even Russia, Saudi Arabia and China can look at Israel and think "at least we are not them"

[VILLAMARV]

1 minute ago, Talldarkandransome said:

I'm glad I'm not on social media

[Talldarkandransome]

Just now, VILLAMARV said:

VT aint social media, mostly reasonable folk on VT

[VILLAMARV]

1 minute ago, Talldarkandransome said:

VT aint social media, mostly reasonable folk on VT

FU buddy

[Talldarkandransome]

2 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

FU buddy

I've heard worse today

[magnkarl]

23 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

FU buddy

I'm not your buddy, guy.

[VILLAMARV]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I'm not your buddy, guy.

I'm not your guy, friend.

[chrisp65]

52 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

Oh come on now they have to demonize Israel somehow right?

Steal land, bulldoze homes, bomb one little refugee camp and suddenly you’re no better than the other terrorist bad guys!

 

 

[Mr_Dogg]

1 hour ago, Tumblerseven said:

Oh come on now they have to demonize Israel somehow right?

You might be misreading my post.

[El Segundo]

7 hours ago, magnkarl said:

It properly grinds my gears when people from Lebanon and Egypt complain about Palestine when their own bloody governments treat Palestinians like disposable pieces in their own geo-political games, and have kept Gaza under military occupation and blockade themselves (Egypt) for pretty much as long as Gaza was a thing.

Where's the criticism of the same occupying apartheid mentality when it comes to Arab neighbours of Palestine? No one dares mention why these same states want to keep Palestinians where they are, because it would mean that a lot of angry second or third generation Egyptians and Lebanese would need to actually consider the extremely difficult situation this is, and that their own states contribute to the issue.

Jews across the world are being targeted for what Israel is doing, yet these same people can't fathom what their own countries are doing to increase the issue.

So you're saying the neighbouring Arab countries are as guilty of apartheid policies as the Israelis are when it comes to Palestinians?  What is that based on - because because they don't want to take them in and prefer them to stay in Gaza?     

[magnkarl]

4 minutes ago, El Segundo said:

So you're saying the neighbouring Arab countries are as guilty of apartheid policies as the Israelis are when it comes to Palestinians?  What is that based on - because because they don't want to take them in and prefer them to stay in Gaza?     

No, I'm saying that Palestinian refugees in Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are treated like eternal refugees, sitting in camps and squalor for generations, just like in Gaza and the West Bank. There is no less apartheid for Palestinians in these countries, they're walled in to camps and have little to no rights to anything.

Here, in example about how Egypt treats its Palestinian refugees:

Quote

University education, free for Palestinians under Nasser, now has to be paid for in foreign currency. Even those Palestinians entitled to exemption from paying 90% of the fees charged to foreign students are often unable to raise the remainder. Some Palestinians report forging birth certificates to indicate they are Egyptian in order to get free education. Others have initially paid the minimum fees that Egyptians pay, promising to pay the remaining foreign fees after graduation. Often they are unable to do so and are thus denied official accreditation.