Israel, Palestine and Iran

[Tumblerseven]

6 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

1. It's not a good idea to subscribe to any point of view. Please don't assume people do that - opinions are just that, someone who doesn't change them from time to time is not worth debating. 
2. Fascist states often grow out of democratic systems. 
3. Personally I don't know many Palestinians (met a few at Uni), I can only assume most are peaceful people who just want a normal life. You know, have a family, run a shop, send their kids to school, share holidays together. Like every other society regardless of their government policy. I'd be willing to be that if there was a referendum of 'Israel and Palestine will each split the contested land in half with Jerusalem staying as is, and no further conflict' - I reckon mast majority of those mothers and fathers who are bombed in the Gaza strip will likely be happy to agree to that.
People are very rarely bad - it's the system of war and conflict which provokes them to do harm.
4. Try UK on for size - I'd bet most young people do not like the current government. I expect them to vote tories out. And in 5/10 years time new young people will have a different view of the world. 

Hamas Militant’s Chilling Call To Family After Oct 7 Israel Massacre; ‘Your Son’s A Hero’ | Watch | Hindustan Times

Quote

The Israeli military has released a chilling audio conversation between a purported Hamas militant and his family in which the Palestinian fighter is heard boasting about killing 10 people during the October 7 massacre. The audio conversation appears to be from the day of Hamas’ assault on Israel on October 7.

there is a video inside.

I feel like you just trying to argue for the sake of argue so im not even going to touch it.

 

[magnkarl]

9 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

Yo @magnkarl

out of curiosity 

if a country with 9 million people fight with a country of153 million people.

Is it likely that war of attrition would contribute to the wars outcome? 

I don't know what we're talking about here.

[Jareth]

5 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Hamas have never ever risen to the brutality of what we saw on Oct 7th, they've never done an operation with the size of what we saw and they've never been very accurate with their rockets. There's very little proof to indicate that it wouldn't be safe, unless you knew about Russia\Iran's involvement with op-planning and satellite aid. There likely won't be a festival in Israel for months, let alone close to Lebanon, the West Bank or Gaza.

The broader point is that the security architecture of Israel was asleep at the wheel, complacency from the top down. I'm not sure a festival organiser can be blamed for missing the possibility of what Hamas could do, when the well funded military and intelligence complex also missed it. But miss it they did.

[Thug]

4 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said:

Seeing the free planestiners ripping down posters of missing British people is very sad to me 

Agreed.

 

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, Tumblerseven said:

Hamas Militant’s Chilling Call To Family After Oct 7 Israel Massacre; ‘Your Son’s A Hero’ | Watch | Hindustan Times

there is a video inside.

I feel like you just trying to argue for the sake of argue so im not even going to touch it.

 

Aaah, the anecdotal quote throwing. 

I am very open in my views, I am trying to present arguments against yours. You know, a debate.

In which case, do you want me to pull up videos of Israelis celebrating killing Palestinians? I can, but it adds nothing to the conversation.

I think there are 4 sides to this conflict - Hamas, state of Israel, Palestinians and Israeli people.

2 of those parties are at fault for the ongoing tragedy. I will let you pick which ones. 

[chrisp65]

Just now, magnkarl said:

I don't know what we're talking about here.

It’s all got a bit surreal.

For what it’s worth, people were challenging momo when he was making opposite points to tumbler. I think (hope?) the majority of people are just challenging extreme positions by trying to state a contradictory or alternative opinion to show there are always at least three sides in every argument.

It’s all understandably very raw at the moment. But perhaps an analogy would be that all those people that marched against a war on Iraq, were not defending the ideals of Iraq.  

[Awol]

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

These people's actions aside - what is the purpose of these posters in the locations they are posted?

To highlight the plight of children being held hostage and keep them in people’s minds, I would think.

So now we’ve done that part.. what do you think of the actions themselves? It takes a special kind of personality to rip down the posters of kidnapped kids, even if you sympathise with the Palestinians more broadly - don’t you think?  
 

[Tumblerseven]

45 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I don't know what we're talking about here.

Well let me explain. I was talking with thug about Israels legitimate threats.  I named every neighboring country to Israel and posted their all population numbers all those countries dont want israel existing. Israel population is 9million neighboring countries 153million.

Thug completely ignored that legitimate threat to Israel. And said that its a walk in a park for Israel to defeat all those countries and he wanted to focus on military budget. I said hold on those 153 million population countries can use war of attrition. He laughed again and said utter nonsense its not WW1. 

So the question if all neighboring countries would attack Israel at the same time would war of attrition contribute to the wars outcome? i think the answer is very clear yes.

He Thug disingenuously asked you would you consider this war the war of attrition and tried to pretend that we are talking about this war. I saw what he asked you and i wanted to correct the question.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Tumblerseven
added population.

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

To highlight the plight of children being held hostage and keep them in people’s minds, I would think.

So now we’ve done that part.. what do you think of the actions themselves? It takes a special kind of personality to rip down the posters of kidnapped kids, even if you sympathise with the Palestinians more broadly - don’t you think?  
 

I wouldn’t rip them down myself, I think they’re being dicks. 

[Awol]

2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Why would they take down those posters? They must not want those hostages to be found in uh *checks notes* London, England.

This post is the definition of a self-own, imo. 

Well played.

[Awol]

Just now, Jareth said:

I wouldn’t rip them down myself, I think they’re being dicks. 

The only reaction a civilised person can have. 

[Chindie]

The posters are propaganda it should be noted. I wonder if the artists involved would add pictures of dead Palestinian children to the campaign - they too, after all, are suffering for the actions of a terrorist group. I suspect the answer is no, because the point isn't really about the kidnapped, it's about what they represent.

[Pongo Waring]

 

 

[Thug]

21 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

Well let me explain. I was talking with thug about Israels legitimate threats.  I named every neighboring country to Israel and posted their all population numbers all those countries dont want israel existing. Israel population is 9million neighboring countries 153million.

Thug completely ignored that legitimate threat to Israel. And said that its a walk in a park for Israel to defeat all those countries and he wanted to focus on military budget. I said hold on those 153 million countries can use war of attrition. He laughed again and said utter nonsense its not WW1. 

So the question if all neighboring countries would attack Israel at the same time would war of attrition contribute to the wars outcome? i think the answer is very clear yes.

He Thug disingenuously asked you would you consider this war the war of attrition and tried to pretend that we are talking about this war. I saw what he asked you and i wanted to correct the question.

That’s a lot of angry countries. 153 million countries.  I’d still hedge my bets israel would smash 153 million countries. No attrition needed.

[Chindie]

Israel now withholding UN visas it appears.

In fairness they're doing the UN a favour there, it's hard for them to kill UN staff if they're not allowed into the region at all.

[Thug]

23 minutes ago, Awol said:

The only reaction a civilised person can have. 

Agreed. 

 

what is the only civilised reaction a person can have to water being cut off to 2 million people?

[Chindie]

And the UN secretary-general has had to be wheeled out to reiterate the completely innocuous and sensible things he said yesterday that Israel didn't like.

[The Fun Factory]

18 minutes ago, Chindie said:

And the UN secretary-general has had to be wheeled out to reiterate the completely innocuous and sensible things he said yesterday that Israel didn't like.

No doubt demanded by the US. It is hard to have a sensible conversation in an insane situation that is the Middle East.

[Keyblade]

48 minutes ago, Awol said:

This post is the definition of a self-own, imo. 

Well played.

I don't think you understand what that term means. In any case, you're the one posting context-less clips from Twitter, and drawing conclusions.

[Awol]

This has been a fascinating insight into how someone reasons themselves into morally bankrupt actions.

Putting up posters of kidnapped children - even British children - in public is propaganda because it makes Hamas, the terrorist Government of Gaza, look bad. 

Propaganda is a form of Information Warfare. 

Therefore, tearing down posters is fighting against Israeli Information Warfare and supporting the Palestinians.

In Britain, tearing down posters of kidnapped British children is resistance against Israel and fighting for Palestine. 

I thought it was irrational hate, but at least now I understand how those people got to that place in their heads.