Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Chindie]

11 minutes ago, Warnock said:

While we're on about series, are the Netflix one's worth a look? (Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones etc)

Generally, yes. There's some really good stuff across the series. I rated them a few months back as follows..

Daredevil S1

Daredevil S3

Punisher

Jessica Jones S1

Luke Cage S2

Iron Fist S2

Daredevil S2

The Defenders

Iron Fist S1

Jessica Jones S2

Luke Cage S1

Luke Cage series 1 is crap, Jessica Jones 2 suffers from just being dull, Iron Fist S1 is a mess but it's not as bad as most would have you believe. The Defenders is disappointing, Daredevil S2 suffers from a split personality undercooking it's plot(s), and bad choices. Iron Fist S2 improves on the first everywhere, Cage S2 is genuinely good, Punisher is really good, Daredevil S3 is a return to form and is a cracking take on some classic DD touchstones, and Daredevil S1 is just a really good kicking off point with an excellent villain.

They have a single recurring issue - bloat. All the series bar Defenders and Iron Fist are 13 episodes long and in nearly every case that makes them at least 2 episodes too long with slow moments, dull storylines. Punisher most escapes this I think.

They're well worth your time. They should be watched in release order but you can jump around, so long as you suck to a couple of rules - watch Daredevil S2 before Punisher, and watch/read a synopsis of The Defenders before watching the series that follow (especially DD series 3).

The cross over with the films is... limited. Pretty much just references to events. That's due to weird politics within Marvel. So don't expect the Netflix shows to pivot around events in the films, they simply don't.

[Chindie]

41 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

Interesting that, I thought the plan going forwards was that all Marvel TV shows would be made in house by Marvel studios, and licensed exclusively on Disney+? Must only be the case for the top tier properties/stuff they want to work on? 

Seemingly not. It looks like the rift between the TV and film studios at Marvel still exists. The Disney+ shows are produced by the movie studio and are using the characters and properties from the films specifically. Meanwhile the TV arm seems to be holding onto working with some other minor characters - I mean they current output is Cloak and Dagger, who're C tier on a really good day, the Runaways, which is a beloved comic but one that's very, very niche, and Agents of SHIELD, which I'm astonished hasn't been cancelled yet. Ghost Rider is a C tier character who can overachieve just on image really, and Helstrom... Well put it like this. I'd forgotten he was a thing until the story came out today and I went 'Who?... Oh that guy... Ugh, really?!'.

I hope the movie arm has grabbed Moon Knight.

[wazzap24]

On 29/04/2019 at 20:13, Zatman said:

I know people have said for years the bubble will burst for Marvel but I do wonder if this is the peak. I dont know if people would be willing to make the same emotional investment as they have had in last 10 years or so.

You could be right there, but then again people didn’t know they were making an emotional investment ten years ago when it all started. I was 28 when Iron Man came out, I never thought it was the start of what has essentially been a pop culture phenomenon. There’s new generations of fans out there, think of all the kids between, I dunno, 8-10 getting into all the movies now - they’ll be the target and will have their own ‘generational films’ to come. ‘Older’ fans of various ages will still be invested in what comes next and a whole host of new possibilities are up for grabs now after the Fox aquisition. 

They don’t really need to repeat the model in terms of an overarching plot line across multiple movies (although I think there will be an element of that in the future) because they’ve done it and now they have a massive platform to expand the universe however they want. All they have to do is keep the quality up and the stories interesting and people will keep on watching, just like people have carried on reading the comics for decades. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by wazzap24

[MrDuck]

Just give us Asgardians of the Galaxy dammit

[Tomaszk]

On 28/04/2019 at 18:53, Chindie said:

I'm also not a fan of the way one character is taken. There's a nice idea developed with the character that I'm totally on board with, but they then choose to take a different path with it that felt like a missed opportunity. It's easy to see why that decision was made, but still it's not one I like. It also leads one of the more awkward but practical costume choices I've seen in recent years in any film, but I suspect I'm well in the minority to have noticed or been annoyed by it.

....

[RE: Captain Marvel] There's also a gag that's going to age horrifically badly that they really shouldn't have put in.

Great write up as always.

Mind clearing up these bits as I'm curious.

I really enjoyed it in a packed, noisy cinema, when I really needed a number 2 for the last 20 mins. I don't know if it'll have the re-watch legs Infinity War has. Must have watched that 20+ times due to not being able to find anything on planes.

[Chindie]

59 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Great write up as always.

Mind clearing up these bits as I'm curious.

I really enjoyed it in a packed, noisy cinema, when I really needed a number 2 for the last 20 mins. I don't know if it'll have the re-watch legs Infinity War has. Must have watched that 20+ times due to not being able to find anything on planes.

The character development

Spoiler

Thor.

I like the idea of a 'broken' Thor. Dramatically it makes great sense, as he's basically lost everything over the course of the films, and it's a nice nod to his 'Unworthy' times in the comics.

But they make him into a joke. It's been done because Hemsworth was much happier playing a comedic take on the role and they film didn't hand an out and out comedy character. But I'd have preferred to not go so far as to make him literally a walking joke. It takes away from the character's journey.

The costume issue is the wrist covering/gloves he has throughout the film, which just look weird. It's there to cover the seam between the fat suit and either gloves to fatten his hands or to hide the difference between his actual hands. But it looks weird. It doesn't quite work when Thor is dressed casually, unlike in something like the Hobbit films, which did the same thing, but the costumes were more naturally and to hide the joins.

The joke

Spoiler

The Fortnite gag. Terrible, terrible, terrible. It's going to date at an incredible speed and it's one of the most cynically nasty bits of product placement I can recall. I'll take every perfectly shot Audi concept car in the world over an extended joke that exists only to do some advertising. Possibly worse than the infamous Casino Royale Omega scene, as it goes on for far longer and never threatens to be funny.

 

[mikeyp102]

@Chindie as the resident marvel expert. 

In the film, Okoye mentions an underwater earthquake, it’s been said that is an Easter egg for Namor coming in the future as he fights with Black Panther and is the equilivant of Marvel’s Aquaman. Even though to bring him in, they’d need to do some deal similar to the Spider-Man Sony one. What do you think of this character? Will it be a good introduction? 

As for the “new” Avengers, I think they’ll take a few years off from going that route. They’ll stick to the characters individual films for a few years. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they go down the Young Avengers route. They’ve already set up, Cassie Lang, Starks daughter, the kid from iron man 3. I’m sure Spider-Man is young enough to help there as well.

[Chindie]

9 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

@Chindie as the resident marvel expert. 

In the film, Okoye mentions an underwater earthquake, it’s been said that is an Easter egg for Namor coming in the future as he fights with Black Panther and is the equilivant of Marvel’s Aquaman. Even though to bring him in, they’d need to do some deal similar to the Spider-Man Sony one. What do you think of this character? Will it be a good introduction? 

As for the “new” Avengers, I think they’ll take a few years off from going that route. They’ll stick to the characters individual films for a few years. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they go down the Young Avengers route. They’ve already set up, Cassie Lang, Starks daughter, the kid from iron man 3. I’m sure Spider-Man is young enough to help there as well.

I think everyone's first thought on that line was it was a nod towards Namor, but I think they then mention that similar things are happening across the galaxy so there may be nothing to it.

Namor is an interesting character. He's actually older than Aquaman IIRC, and he's a better character across the board. He's more complicated than many characters, as he's very much 'grey', he's neither a hero or a villain. He is concerned only with Atlantis and does whatever he believes is best for Atlantis, even if that brings him into conflict with the dyed in the wool heroes of the Marvel world. He's also, for want of a better way to put it, a dickhead, which is always fun. He's arrogant, prideful, has disdain for pretty much everyone, and has a raging temper, but is also charismatic, charming - you hate him because he's a prick but you also kinda like him because he's got a rogueish personality in many ways. And he infamously is meant to be unusually attractive to women, which is an unusual character quirk.

He'd be a cool character to bring in. He has fought with Wakanda before, he invaded as part of Avengers v X-Men, where he allied with the X-Men. He can be a decent foil for the comic Black Panther because they offer in some ways mirrors of each other. The comic Black Panther has often been portrayed with similar regality and lack of interest in the outside world, but where Wakanda is usually defensive, seeking to be left alone, Namor's Atlantis has often struck out against enemies, being aggressive in seeking revenge or retribution. I'm unsure about how that dynamic would work with the MCU version. The film take on T'challa is overtly noble, doing the right thing, having overcome wrath for the greater good, so you wouldn't have quite the mirror dynamic and Namor would probably end up being an overt villain. Also we've seen war in Wakanda a lot already in a very short space of time. I feel like 'Wakanda is under attack!' is feeling a bit played out already. And I feel like there's not a natural 'link' between Wakanda and the ocean there yet. So far Wakanda feels more like a landlocked city state, so having them be ocean linked feels a bit... random. It wouldn't be hard to establish, a shot of a port or whatever, but it would feel a little token. They'd almost certainly have to go down the route of vibranium mining/manufacturing is harming the ocean or whatever.

He's definitely got potential though, perhaps being a bit of a Loki 2.0 in being a villain you like who becomes a sometime ally, although rather than Loki's mischievous side he'd be more a charming arsehole. And if they were to bring him in as a villain Black Panther is the most obvious place (although 1 v 1 Namor would batter T'challa every time unless Namor was away from water for an extended time, as he's obscenely powerful). He doesn't really fit with anyone else they've established at all.

But... The rights with Namor are apparently a complete mess. Far worse than anyone else so far. Its believed the rights are similar to Hulk's, where solo film rights are held by Universal (I think it might just be solo distribution film rights with Hulk, meaning Marvel can make a solo Hulk film, but Universal would distribute it, which Disney aren't going to allow) but they can use him in team-ups. Except with Namor there's more parties involved and it looks like various different companies have different stakes in the character over the years and it appears there would be an enormous legal mess if Marvel did anything with the character. And given the success of the Marvel films and Disney's money in the background, any company that felt they had a sniff of a case would pursue it. And any company that felt they had any claim on the character would try to wring every penny out of Disney if Disney sought to buy out the rights, which would mean from the get go the film would be very expensive with no guarantee the character would return the investment. So they might just decide it's not worth it while they've other characters they have full control over already sat waiting.

But hopefully, one day. He's a really good character and he adds something the series just doesn't have. A prick.

[MCU]

So there's a new Spider-Man trailer and people are losing their minds over the 'multiverse'. What exactly is this?

[Chindie]

 

[Chindie]

27 minutes ago, Warnock said:

So there's a new Spider-Man trailer and people are losing their minds over the 'multiverse'. What exactly is this?

The multiverse is Marvel's shorthand for stuff line alternative realities and separate universes. It's a recurring thing in all comics, although Marvel has rarely done much with it (unlike DC, which literally has had the concept of a multiverse as a tent pole of the universe for decades).

Basically the idea was a way of justifying various alternative takes on characters and the like as all being canon but also seperate. So, for example, the Marvel comic universe, the main one that everyone knows, is based around the exploits of a universe defined around, for want of a better term, the characters of Earth-616 (don't worry about the name, doesn't mean anything). There's alternative realities though. There's a world were superheroes all exist in a near future cyber dystopia, the 2099 universe where Spider-Man is actually a guy called Miguel O'Hara, for instance. There's a universe populated by anthropomorphic animals, where Spider-Man is actually Spider-Ham, Peter Porker, who's a pig (geddit? Laugh? We nearly did!). There's a universe that 'subtly' rebooted the common Marvel stories and started again, with small changes, called the Ultimate universe, a universe where Peter Parker eventually died and another kid became Spider-Man, Miles Morales. And so on.

There's dozens of these universes. Some of them only come about because of limited run series, a handful of comics dealing with some weird spinoff that was resolved and then finished (Marvel Zombies for instance). Some of them ran for years and encompassed thousands of issues and ran in parallel to the main universe. The Ultimate universe later for over a decade and it's take on characters have their own mythos - it's version of the Avengers was the Ultimates, Venom is different in that universe, etc etc.

However it's quite rare for these comics to crossover. The recent Spiderverse comic run is the most obvious example, which dealt with a cross dimensional threat to 'Spider-people' that meant all of them, across dozens of different continuities, came together to survive. And trust me, there's some **** weird takes on Spider-Man. The film takes the idea and plays with it, but doesn't adapt much of the comic at all besides the concept (for the better). But as said, it's a rare occurrence for crossovers to happen.

The film series going down the multiverse route would pretty much let them do whatever they want with characters and not necessarily be tied to continuity. They could go make a Spider-Man 2099 film and not have it be a sequel to the current series, but could tie it in if they wanted by playing the alternative universe crossover card.

I'm hoping they don't do this, because as much as I like things like the 2099 universe, crossover multiverse stuff has the same effect as time travel on narrative, it gets messy and becomes a get out of jail free card. As I said, in the DC universe multiverse stuff is a tent pole of the series, to the extent they go further than Marvel and just have things like Earth-2 (an alternative reality Earth) just be part of the main universes reality, with characters hoping across the realities regularly. Unfortunately it became such a mess they literally had to do an event series to reset and fix it as it has become such an unwieldy mess.

I'll be hoping that Mysterio saying he's from an alternative dimension is actually just more of him effectively being a fraud.

[wazzap24]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

 

“Bitch Please, you’ve been to space” 

[Chindie]

Richard Madden (Robb Stark in Game of Thrones) has been cast as Ikarus in the Eternals.

[wazzap24]

9 films now slated for release between now and end of 2022, according to latest Disney schedule. 

Spidey, 2 next year and 3 per year in 2021/2022. 

[Demitri_C]

On 04/05/2019 at 13:23, mikeyp102 said:

@Chindie as the resident marvel expert. 

In the film, Okoye mentions an underwater earthquake, it’s been said that is an Easter egg for Namor coming in the future as he fights with Black Panther and is the equilivant of Marvel’s Aquaman. Even though to bring him in, they’d need to do some deal similar to the Spider-Man Sony one. What do you think of this character? Will it be a good introduction? 

As for the “new” Avengers, I think they’ll take a few years off from going that route. They’ll stick to the characters individual films for a few years. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they go down the Young Avengers route. They’ve already set up, Cassie Lang, Starks daughter, the kid from iron man 3. I’m sure Spider-Man is young enough to help there as well.

If they go down a younger avengers route it will be a flop like this xmen new class films. They have been shit. 

It's a shame we never got to see a avengers v x-men movie. That would have been epic

[wazzap24]

56 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

If they go down a younger avengers route it will be a flop like this xmen new class films. They have been shit. 

It's a shame we never got to see a avengers v x-men movie. That would have been epic

You’ve got to factor in the TV shows too. They are creating proper in house Marvel Studios programmes now, some of which will link into the films. I think they will do a young/teen avengers style show, but I don’t think it will be part of phase 4 in terms of the films. 

The ‘confirmed’ TV shows so far are: 

Loki 

Wanda Vision 

Falcon and The Winter Soldier 

There are rumours around that a Hawkeye show will be added as well. If they do make Hawkeye, the talk is it will be about him training his daughter up to take his place, so they could use this to begin some kind of new young team. 

 I think Loki will possibly tie in with the next Guardians film in some way, ‘Falcon’ and the Winter Soldier’ will be grounded on Earth and will focus on testing reaction to Falcon becoming Cap. Wanda Vision is rumoured to be set in the 50’s, which would indicate it will be stand-alone/self-contained, but who knows. 

Given what we know from Avengers EG and the movies announced so far, I think it’s all going to be massively exciting. 

Edit:

On the last point - you will get your Avengers/X-men movie - there is no way on Paul McGrath’s green earth they won’t bring them together at some point - they’ll start that midway though ‘phase 4’. They could use the ‘snap’ as some kind of introduction, or if there is indeed a ‘multi-verse’ - there’s another way to bring them in. Fantastic 4 will arrive at some point too. 

There is also all the baddies they can potentially use. If they do go for another massive arc, they could bring in Galactus for this.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by wazzap24

[Demitri_C]

8 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

You’ve got to factor in the TV shows too. They are creating proper in house Marvel Studios programmes now, some of which will link into the films. I think they will do a young/teen avengers style show, but I don’t think it will be part of phase 4 in terms of the films. 

The ‘confirmed’ TV shows so far are: 

Loki 

Wanda Vision 

Falcon and The Winter Soldier 

There are rumours around that a Hawkeye show will be added as well. If they do make Hawkeye, the talk is it will be about him training his daughter up to take his place, so they could use this to begin some kind of new young team. 

 I think Loki will possibly tie in with the next Guardians film in some way, ‘Falcon’ and the Winter Soldier’ will be grounded on Earth and will focus on testing reaction to Falcon becoming Cap. Wanda Vision is rumoured to be set in the 50’s, which would indicate it will be stand-alone/self-contained, but who knows. 

Given what we know from Avengers EG and the movies announced so far, I think it’s all going to be massively exciting. 

 

 

So your saying these charchters will have their own shows? Will the actors be recast or is it the guys from the movies. 

I thought loki was dead though as well? 

[wazzap24]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So your saying these charchters will have their own shows? Will the actors be recast or is it the guys from the movies. 

I thought loki was dead though as well? 

Yes and it’s the actual actors from the films. They are supposedly ‘mini-series’ (6-8 parts) with Marvel Studios budgets. 

Loki: 

Spoiler

In Endgame, Cap and Iron Man go back to 2012 to retrieve the Tesseract, right after the Loki-led invasion in Avengers 1. Loki grabs the Tesseract and disappears, so somewhere ‘in time’ you have the original bad version of Loki running around with an Infinity Stone. 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by wazzap24

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

Yes and it’s the actual actors from the films. They are supposedly ‘mini-series’ (6-8 parts) with Marvel Studios budgets. 

Loki: 

 

Oh yeah I forgot about that scene. Makes sense although I hope they don't play about too much with time lines and multiverse. They did this with flash the TV show. Was good to start with then it just went Utter shit

[wazzap24]

20 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Oh yeah I forgot about that scene. Makes sense although I hope they don't play about too much with time lines and multiverse. They did this with flash the TV show. Was good to start with then it just went Utter shit

I’m not too worried about it, I think Marvel will get it right. The won’t overuse stuff like that, but it’s a good way to bring in new characters/plot lines. 

Introducing X-Men will be fascinating. The New Mutants movie has been delayed until mid-2020 and the Gambit movie has been scrapped entirely. Will be interesting to see if the NM film is now altered as their introduction to the MCU or if they leave it as it’s own thing for now. I suppose it depends on whether they like the characters and can see them working, or if they wan’t an entirely new version of the traditional X-men. 

Given there has never been a mention of Mutants/X-Men in the MCU (that I can remember anyway), it will be really interesting to see how they bring them in to the current timeline. One decent theory I’ve seen is that some people that come back from the ‘snap’ end up with genetic mutations - that would be a decent way of doing it, but you lose all the original characters back stories and it essentially re-writes the entire X-men history. An alternate timeline might actually be ‘easier’. 

Kevin Feige has recently said that the current 5 year plan (post End Game) was in place before the Fox deal was completed, so it might be a while before we see a proper version of X-Men in a MCU film - maybe 2023/2024, although I suspect they will be introduced in some way before then.