Strong City

[snowychap]

You are in it, boy .

boy?? Have I just gone back to school? :shock:

No, God will not lose for He has already won

Doesn't sound like a fair trial, then. What a pity - I would have thought that god, at least, could have been a shining light for justice. :winkold:

Then again if you are god and can't load the dice in your favour - when can you?

snowychap, I don't get from you that you are truly interested in the things of God. I have no objection to answering honest questions from those who genuinely want to know but I get the feeling that you moreso just want to argue.

Am I correct in my assumption?

I am interested in the thoughts of the people who are on VillaTalk. I question because that is my nature. If you believe that I am on this thread in order to obediently and unquestioningly accept each carefully crafted answer that you, Terry and Timothy give then you are mistaken.

I suggest that your assumption is based on the false reasoning that those who question in order to understand further are arguing for arguments sake.

[TerryCzap]

Good night folks. I wish you all the best.

[tonyh29]

God gets to do what He wants with me whether I get to be the bathroom cleaner or Messiah.

Go for Messiah , I've heard bathroom cleaner isn't all it's cracked up to be

I've noticed that your group has prety much joined up to every forum that has a topic on the documentry , I've also noticed that you give the same stock answers to every question and only care to answer the easy ones , the questions that require some thought or are too akward for you to answer you just ignore ..what are you afraid of ?

because they refused to testify in His behalf

Hitler believed in God ..In fact he even said " people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated" so i'll ask again ,was Hitler doing God's work ?

Another sobering thought is that the testimony you give in this great controversy is the very same that will either justify or condemn you with your own words.

The existence of a world without God seems to me less absurd than the presence of a God, existing in all his perfection, creating an imperfect man in order to make him run the risk of Hell

[Clarry]

I'm dumbstruck by all this.

[ED]

Its all getting a bit freaky as more and more cultists are joining the site.

[Clarry]

Having read through most of this now, I can see what has happened.

Someone has googled the web to defend anything said about them. Fair enough. A bit like those men who shadowed the BBC reporter everywhere some months back.

I do like the idea that the media are the manipulators, not the religious leader. I would err to the side that both are the manipulators, one for entertainment, one to create his own fiefdom.

[hanifa]

..what are you afraid of ?

I am afraid of nothing, tony, but it is pointless to answer questions that come from a heart that already is decided. I would never, in a thousand years, be able to give a satisfactory answer to one who only wanted their own.

[tonyh29]

I am afraid of nothing, tony, but it is pointless to answer questions that come from a heart that already is decided. I would never, in a thousand years, be able to give a satisfactory answer to one who only wanted their own

the word brainwashed springs to mind and as such I can see this is becoming a pointless topic ...

No doubt i'll be seeing you all on the news when your leader decides it's time you all must die to fulfill his latest whim ... I hear poison is the preferred method by which messiahs murder their followers , so a bit of free advice let everyone else finishing their meals before you start yours ...

[Clarry]

The ultimate power trip. To have control of life and death over your followers. But it's all god's will, so hey ho!

[TheDon]

I am afraid of nothing, tony, but it is pointless to answer questions that come from a heart that already is decided. I would never, in a thousand years, be able to give a satisfactory answer to one who only wanted their own

the word brainwashed springs to mind and as such I can see this is becoming a pointless topic ...

And herein lies the problem of debates like this, all sides feel the others are brainwashed, so none are willing to approach it with an open mind.

The non-believers are brainwashed by science and the inability to rationally explain God or a messiah, the Christians who don't believe he is the messiah are brainwashed by the church with the notion that when Jesus returns he'll be accompanied by a million and one signs that make it impossible to refute him being the messiah, and the people of strong city are brainwashed by their leader.

Which I think is what Terry is saying, there's really no point debating it, because you either believe or you don't, there's very few people who are willing to be open to the possibilities of either side and there is next to no chance that people from either side will suddenly change their mind based on a forum thread. If people do change their mind it'd be down to personal first hand experience and not a thread on a forum. Even if God came down and spoke to the contributors of this thread in their sleep tonight and told them that it's true, Michael is the messiah, most would pass it off as some messed up dream and eating far too much cheese before going to bed (I know I would)

[tonyh29]

And herein lies the problem of debates like this, all sides feel the others are brainwashed, so none are willing to approach it with an open mind.

well No

They are giving stock answers to every question , across just about every web site witha forum ..hence they are Brainwashed

I can only speak for myslef but you would get different answers from me over all these web sites as I've not been conditioned or programmed as they have

I do have an open mind hence I asked them a few valid questions , which they are unwilling / unable / not programmed to answer ..asking if Hitler was doing God's work does not make me a non believer so why refuse to answer the question ? .. Hitler believed in God and believed he was doing God's work ..These lot only believe in one God ,so it has to be the same God that Hitler was talking to becuase there isn't another one

I doubt they would convert me , but I'm giving them a chance to sell me salvation , they don't have the answers though ,which is clear to all

Oh well , there is always the Mormans

[Timothy]

Snowychap,

I am of the opinion that there are no absolutes or truths and so I cannot show you someone who has arrived at the truth by this method.

So are you saying that you are now free to judge everyone as a liar who claims to be telling the truth? And what has your opinion done for you lately? Are you absolutely sure there are no absolutes? Have you not heard of lord Kelvin, and the temperature of “absolute” zero?

Tonyh29

I've noticed that your group has prety much joined up to every forum that has a topic on the documentry , I've also noticed that you give the same stock answers to every question and only care to answer the easy ones , the questions that require some thought or are too akward for you to answer you just ignore ..what are you afraid of ?

You assume that unanswered questions are done so because of fear. Maybe the questioned can read the heart and see that the questioner isn’t asking a thoughtful question, but only being ridiculous. We do have some experience in being confronted by this you know. Also, our answers may appear "stock" because the truth is consistent. Perhaps if you spoke it, you would know that. And besides, what question have I avoided?

I doubt they would convert me , but I'm giving them a chance to sell me salvation , they don't have the answers though ,which is clear to all

Who said we were ever in the market of selling salvation???? And what will information do for you?? How would someone else's judgment of Hitler give you a heart of righteousness?

[TerryCzap]

From Don,

And herein lies the problem of debates like this, all sides feel the others are brainwashed, so none are willing to approach it with an open mind. The nonbelievers are brainwashed by science and the inability to rationally explain God or a messiah, the Christians who don't believe he is the messiah are brainwashed by the church with the notion that when Jesus returns he'll be accompanied by a million and one signs that make it impossible to refute him being the messiah, and the people of strong city are brainwashed by their leader.

Which I think is what Terry is saying, there's really no point debating it, because you either believe or you don't, there's very few people who are willing to be open to the possibilities of either side and there is next to no chance that people from either side will suddenly change their mind based on a forum thread. If people do change their mind it'd be down to personal first hand experience and not a thread on a forum. Even if God came down and spoke to the contributors of this thread in their sleep tonight and told them that it's true, Michael is the messiah, most would pass it off as some messed up dream and eating far too much cheese before going to bed (I know I would)

Don, you speak of some very practical things here, especially your last few lines. I would like to touch on the idea of being brainwashed though. Those who hear of little groups like ours often think that we are perpetually bombarded with someone else's ideas and are in some manner forced to believe and live as we do and cannot think for ourselves or break out of it. This is understandable in part because it is what society at large has been trained to think and how they live.

I happen to know that my heart and mind are very open to new ideas and other possibilities of change. I can only speak for myself, but I converse with Michael on a face to face basis for just a few minutes a month. Sometimes months will go by and I do not visit with him at all. The spirit of God however is continually inside of me telling me what is true and what is a lie. My mind gets changed all the time by various influences. I question most things that come my way, especially if it is published by a corrupt media. I am very much a "free thinker".

Some time back the "civilized world" was injected with the notion that the President of Iran wants to "Wipe Israel off the map". If I were brainwashed and unmovable in my thought process, I would be like the rest of the druids who then begin to chant "Bomb Iran". Because I am open to new thoughts, I hear a voice that suggests I go and do a little bit of research. I find out that Mr. Ahemdidnejad was saying Israel as a State and political entity should not exist. He is saying the country and its political structure should not be called Israel and run by Zionist who only want to crush out the Palestinians. He is suggesting the "holy land" should be renamed Palestine, and all the people living there should have the right to work, live, and shape its destiny, not just the Israelis/Zionist. He was never talking about murdering Jews in an act of ethnic cleansing.

Before the declared start of the Iraq war in 2003, the wise men on the other side of the channel claimed to have all the proof needed that Saddam had WMD and should be slaughtered - their country their decimated. This was in the form of its #10 Dossier. When I heard it being promoted, a flag went off in my mind that something was fishy. Could this happen if I was not open minded? It turned out the dossier which Blair, Bush and Powell were continually citing from, was plagiarized by a college kid from data taken off the internet, regurgitated by your MI5, then declared as truth by Downing Street. Now millions of lives are affected and destroyed. Could I have ever found this out if my mind was not open?

If I were close minded, how could it have been possible for me to recognize that Michael is the returned Christ? I would have been like the other 1.5 billion "christians" who think Jesus would come in the sky, put me on a cloud and take me to his petting zoo with its built in eternal smorgasbord of food - after all, this is what I was taught for over 40 years.

The facts are, "civilized" peoples are brainwashed all day long through their TVs and print media. They are told what to believe almost all the day long. Every week they go to churches and are hypnotized by preachers who tell them a fanciful story a man who will come for them in the sky. Yes, some fools suggest Michael is going to kill us off. But they do not realize their leaders have set them up exquisitely. Their economy is on a free fall to complete collapse the likes of which have never been seen before. Their Gurus are soon going to embark on the continuation of WW3 (Iran) which will lead to a nuclear holocaust and the annihilation of the planet. Their leaders are going to kill them, but they cannot see it.

God simply uses circumstances like Michael's appearing to separate those who hear God's voice and see Him, from those who cannot. I know that most people cannot or will not believe what I have been saying, but this has happened for a very good reason.

"And since they're so obsessed with evil, I will rub their noses in it and gives them what they want.  Since they refuse to trust truth, they're banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions." - God - 2 Thes 2:11-12

[Jerry]

Hello,

I must say that I have appreciated the non hostile and curious atmosphere in this forum.

It appears that things are coming to an impasse. I too am a member of this group and I would like to address something snowychap brought up. He mentioned dialectic. I admit that I am not too familiar with the word so I looked it up and found this definition:

A method of argument or exposition that systematically weighs contradictory facts or ideas with a view to the resolution of their real or apparent contradictions.

I have been thinking about something for a while and it came together this morning. It seems to fit into this process of dialectic. I think it may shine a light on one of the debated points here.

I was over at Terry's last night and we were talking about about Formula 1 racing engines. I was wondering just how fast those machines turned so I read a little blurb about it on the net this morning that may spark the interest of some of the posters here.

A Formula 1 racing car carries some of the most exotic engineering known to humanity. The drivers pilot these fascinating vehicles at speeds up to 360 kilometres per hour, while semi-reclining in a tub made of expensive carbon fibre, with their backsides only a few centimetres off the road.

At full blast, a F-1 fuel pump delivers petrol faster than water flows out of your kitchen tap.

A Formula 1 car uses aerodynamics to generate, at full speed, a downforce of 2-and-a-half times its own weight, so that it'll stick to the road really well. At 160 km per hour, they're generating their own weight in downforce - so they could theoretically drive upside down on the roof of a tunnel.

The downforce means that the car can corner at 5Gs - but when you hit the bend, the driver's head suddenly weighs 25 kilograms, and their 70 kilogram body now weighs a third-of-a-tonne. 5 Gs is enough to stop you from breathing. The drivers need supreme concentration, to ignore the G-forces and maintain their focus for the hour-or-so that it takes to cover 305 kilometres.

And following in the slipstream of the F-1 car is the domestic car. Many of its features (disc brakes, turbo-charger, advanced tyre technology, and sophisticated valve trains) were spin-offs from Formula 1 cars.

The very first car race was between Paris and Rouen in 1894, and the winning car averaged 16.4 kilometres per hour. By 1971, the Italian F-1 Grand Prix was won at an average speed of 242 kph. The very first Formula 1 race was in 1948. Today the Formula 1 Championship consists of a series of some 17 races, run every two weeks between March and October.

After each race, the engineers have to frantically tinker with the car's design for the next non-negotiable race deadline in two weeks. And in each race, the car is substantially different from what it was in the previous race.

Formula 1 today means that the engine is three litres or less, has ten cylinders, and can't be supercharged. The car also has to always weigh at least 600 kilograms, and have four wheels, only two of which are steered or driven.

The engines are amazing. They generate some 600 kilowatts at around 18,000 rpm. Compare this to your average Holden or Falcon which generates about 140 kilowatts at 4,000 rpm. Actually, by the 1990s, the engines were limited to only 12,000 rpm, because of friction in the valve train. But then Renault invented pneumatically-driven valves, which let the maximum engine speed jump to 18,000 rpm.

Each car has about one-and-a-half kilometres of wire, integrating the data from some 120 sensors that glean information such as the angle of the rear wing, the brake temperature, the oil pressure and the tyre pressure. These vital statistics are constantly relayed back to the crew in the pits.

Each car is made of about 9,000 different components. The body and chassis are made from carbon fibre, which when compared to steel, is four times stiffer and five times stronger. The carbon fibre steering wheel alone costs $120,000.

The software to integrate the data from the sensors, and to manage the engine and gearbox, comprises some half-a-million lines of code, which took some 20 person-years to write. The gearbox can have up to seven different speeds - and if the timing of the changing of the gears is off by even a few thousandths of a second, the gearbox will self-destruct.

It takes a lot of money and brain power to roll one of these F-1 babes out onto the track. For example, McLaren has a budget of about $500 million per year, and employs 350 people.

They have even constructed 3D digital replicas of each race track, so they can test the engine before each race. McLaren invented a new braking system (progressive electro-hydraulic power brakes) which dramatically shortened the braking distance - but it was banned.

They also invented a unique rear differential, to better feed that awesome power to the back wheels without spinning - but it too was banned. In fact one engineer estimated that half of his 15-year career had been spent on developing engineering wizardry that was now illegal.

The job of the scientist is to discover phenomena that are already there, but currently unknown to humans. The job of the engineer is creative - to design and build something that has never been built before. You could say that today, in the design of the Formula 1 car, engineering comes closest to art.

[rjw63]

I'd like to know if you are allowed to look at the same internet sites that I look at ;-)

[TerryCzap]

I don't know what you look at, but I look at everything I want to look at. I look at what my Father tells me to look at, which eliminates those things that harm the soul. Read the first two paragraphs of my last post.

[rjw63]

OK, fair enough. Sounds good to me!

[LincsVilla]

Father told you to come to this site.

I think he wants you to be a Villa fan.

[Jerry]

What would happen if someone went in and filed off a gram of metal from one of the pistons. The balance would be lost and the engine would begin to vibrate and would fly apart at some point. Your car could have that done with little consequence, but not something as exotic as a Formula 1. It all has to do with a tunning and balance that is critical to the machine you have.

I was exposed to something called the cosmological constant recently. Physicist have been able to figure out that if an electron's mass were one percent greater or smaller there would be problems in the structure and function of the atom. If electromagnetic force was varied by one or so percent this too would also create problems with the way atoms and molecules form or would not form. But these are small potatoes of tuning compared to the tuning of the cosmological constant. I believe that it has to do with the balance in the forces of gravity and anti gravity, but it is tuned to the perfection of 10 to the 120 power. For an average engine there is about .002 of an inch tolerance in the bearings on the crankshaft. I have no idea what a Formula 1 engine is, but this tolerance in the cosmological constant is a decimal with 119 zeros after it and then a 1. Compared to the tolerance on the crankshaft bearing which is .002 the Cosmological constant looks like this: .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001

As I was listening to this little audio he said the word trillion 10 times trying to express its fineness of tuning. This audio was presented by atheists who could not use the word God. They said that it was too fragile a balance to be left up to chance. It had to be designed. "Designer" was as far as they could go in their description. They have discovered that God is and they cannot admit it.

But there is more:

long line broken so that it doesn't distort the page. No significant digits were harmed in this edit - limpid

[TheDon]

And herein lies the problem of debates like this, all sides feel the others are brainwashed, so none are willing to approach it with an open mind.

well No

They are giving stock answers to every question , across just about every web site witha forum ..hence they are Brainwashed

So you think they are brainwashed, but you're not.

They think you're brainwashed by the mass media and "normal" society... so how exactly was what I said wrong?

I can only speak for myslef but you would get different answers from me over all these web sites as I've not been conditioned or programmed as they have

but they aren't aiming to educate people and convert them to their way of belief, they know they can't do that. They just want people to realise alot of the documentary was misrepresented. If you want them to explain why they think he's the messiah and to convince you of that, they wont, because they know they can't.

Surely it makes sense that alot of their answers to things will be the same? They're asked the same things everywhere, why waste time giving new answers?

Hitler believed in God and believed he was doing God's work ..These lot only believe in one God ,so it has to be the same God that Hitler was talking to becuase there isn't another one

Unless of course they believe that Hitler wasn't actually talking to God or doing God's work?

Just because he said he was doesn't mean everyone has to believe it, same reason Terry has stated he's not in the business of converting people, people are free to believe what they wish.

If they believed that Hitler was acting under God's instructions then should they also believe that every other guy who has claimed to be the messiah is also the messiah? You don't blindly believe everything just because they mention God, clearly they have reasons for believing their leader, albeit reasons that most of us won't understand.

Your question is also the eqivilent to asking any Christian if they believed Hitler was doing God's work, afterall they all follow the words of priests who are also doing God's work. It's a loaded question and pretty much everyone would ignore it for such. If they answer yes then suddenly they're a nazi sympathiser and you'll berate them for it, if they answer no then you start on about how they can believe one man is doing God's work but not another.