Jerry

I take it that you are actually saying forgive me rather than just announcing your willingness to say so. I am more than happy to forgive you but I would wonder whether I have the power to do that? I would have thought that you could only seek forgiveness from one source. I would have to say that I am skeptical about the ignorance. Judging by the careful way in which you and your companions choose your words, I doubt that you are ignorant of the way people might construe anything you say or do. If I had sinned by telling a lie, which indeed would be a sin, I would seek forgiveness from Him, however what I said is true, I don't lie. Yet I do believe I have an obligation to amend any problem or misunderstanding with another soul when that happens. I will admit I am rather clumsy when it comes to decorum, but I have no desire to protect my sorry self from exposure, on the contrary I invite it. If I have been inappropriate I will be the first to want to correct it. There is that normal tendency in humanity to judge when you are offended. But your offense has no other bases than what you might have felt if you had written those words your self. I don't know of anything else I can do to convince you otherwise. I will be happy to leave the forum if you think I am lying. I would not want to violate any rules here any more than violate my conscience. And I would add that I still consider this to have been an enjoyable experience and I have no ill feelings towards you or any others.

This is a rare moment. I don't think I have yet seen anyone on any of the blogs I have been on that had the sense to ask this most obvious and simple question. First off in the bible there are "living parables" where people were asked to do things that illustrated a given truth and message. These parables were often very against the norm and this is the same today. Man was created married to God and one with Him. He would put His desires in man and man would follow them as if they were his own desires. In this you have the symbol of intercourse. A seed of desire brings forth fruit in action. It is a mutually agreed upon outcome. When Eve accepted another seed (thought) from the Adversary of God, she produced rebellion. The thought was that God could not be trusted. He is withholding something. This was adultery and the wife was stolen. At Jesus time the religion and its figurative writes were so misunderstood and corrupted that the system had to be swept away and a new system which expressed what the old was meant to do was established in its place. Now at the end of the world with the appearing of Christ, the human marriage relationship which was suppose to reflect the relationship of man to God, has to be swept away as well, because it too has been so misunderstood and corrupted. So God is taking back his wife (humanity) from the one who stole her. This Adversary has so filled humanity with his seed thoughts, that man's thinking about God has become completely distorted, for we have the same nature and character of this husband of the soul. We have had no idea just how much we are loved and cared for. So in this symbol. Two women were driven from their former marriages which were not an expression of what the true relationship to God looked like. The women were given the ability to walk away from their families and not look back. They were drawn to be with the One in Whom God was being expressed. Michael told them both to go home and be good wives but they could not go against what was impelling their hearts. The husbands had to relinquish their hold on them because the women were no longer abel to be brought back into the relationship by anything short of physical force. In just the same way, the Adversary has to willingly let us go when he sees that he can no longer get us to receive his thoughts any more. All our contracts and agreements with him are broken. The bride now has only the true Husbands thoughts and is kept from the assaults of the former lover. Hope this helps.

Sorry, but I start to get very tired with and bored of people who feel the need to patronise. Banter, have a laugh, tell someone that you believe they're wrong but don't go around belittling their intelligence in order to try to support your side of the discussion. Puerile style, I'm afraid. :roll:

Regarding the level of commitment. Michael does not deal with us in this way. He always tells us to go ask Father what you are to do. When some have come to him and said they wanted to leave, he did not try to talk them out of it. He placed money in their hand and even gave one of the cars to one man. He supports us in what we want to do and he listens to God as to what to do in each situation. I was facing a very difficult decision to separate from my wife right after we moved here in 2000. Everything I would pick up and read was pointing to it. It was so in my face I would have to have been blind to miss it. The one word that kept coming to me was "abandonment". My wife was also being given the same instructions. But we did not know the other was being told the same thing until the decision was made and we then talked about it. It was quite interesting to see how our leading had dovetailed. I had just finished converting a 40 foot school bus into a motorhome with double slideouts. It had the best quality I was able to put into it. Lots of stainless steel, marble counter tops etc. It was like I was being asked to kill my son. I invited Michael over one day and was telling him about what I was getting. I said that God was telling me to abandon everything and that I was going to move out and let my wife have it all. He said, You can abandon everything while your still living right here. Abandonment is letting go of your "possession and attachments" of things and people. I said, Well that may be true, but what's being put on me is to leave it all literally and physically. He did not try to stop me. If someone says "God told them" his hands are off of it. The day I moved out, I felt like my heart was being riped out. (really it was self pity) I moved into this little trailer that was made available. I sat down at the table feeling numb. I glanced at some books that had been left behind by the previous occupant. I picked up one of them and opened it to some where in the middle of the book. The first words my eyes fell upon were, "Have you ever abandon everything?" I began to weep. I could clearly see that He was saying. Just step here and then I will tell you what to do next. So you see it is not to Wayne that we are committed to. It is to Michael in our hearts that we follow.

I must say Jerry this kind of thing offends me somewhat. You use what most people would say would be fortunate occurences in your life to justify god's existence. There was someone in my dorm at school (at the age of 10 or so) who died from a brain haemorrhage after being accidentally kicked in the head in a game of rugby. Should I wonder at 'His' lack of care for an innocent like him? I will wait for the - 'but god had something else planned for him' type of answer. I fail to see how you can use an event of good fortune to illustrate care and not allow for the fact that an opposite event (i.e. bad fortune) illustrates the oposite trait (i.e. lack of care). I am afraid that the attitude that 'god has watched over me' when he blatantly hasn't watched over others smacks of arrogance and vanity. It is not likely to endear you to me. :evil: This is a reasonable question snowychap. There are millions of such cases of "innocents". How can I look into any of them and make a judgment. I can only know my own. I know I have been preserved. For those who do not believe in God they are left to see it as good fortune. However for me to think of the events of life are just the result of a flip of the coin is unthinkable. First off, humans without God think of our few years on this planet as life, and that is all you get. It is a short stint indeed. It is the other side of time where my focus lies. Where life is eternal and what ever happens here is only an out working of something that the redeemed would look back on with satisfaction and say I would not have had it any other way. They will see that no matter how tragic, it was perfect for they will then see all the other factors involved. Every question will be answered then. We will know why things happened as they did and why we are there and some other person is not. We will see the fairness of it all. So to put in words that perhaps you might understand, God's care is there is apparent misfortune just as it is there in apparent good fortune. I hope this helps.

When I read this the first time I didn't see this particular comment. I would have to say that the proof of His nature has been the primary and ongoing revelation that I have had. Not scientific proof but experiential. I have seen His way of caring for me when I was in the blackest part of my life. I was running from God as it were. I was a miserable adulterer. I had left my wife in Wisconsin with two little kids and went off on a two week cross country escapade to Washington state to see a girlfriend there. On the trip I had a flat in the rear tire of my motorcycle. I went all over the road. There seems to have been no reason that I didn't get turned into street pizza. When I finally came to a stop, not having being dumped. I knew I had been divinely protected. I looked up into the heavens and said, “Why do you care about me?” After arriving in Washington I was met with the unpleasant fact that she had taken up with someone else. On the return trip I was going through the midwest about 11:00 at night and the poncho I was wearing flew up over my helmet. Traffic was all around me at freeway speed. I was wearing very heavy leather mittens. Not something that lends itself to dexterity. I was grabbing and grabbing at the poncho while screaming my head off. I thought for sure this was it. Somehow I got a hold of the poncho and got it off my head and I was right where I was suppose to be in the middle of the lane. An instant later I lost it and it was back up over my head. Again I got a hold of it and pulled it off my head and I stood up and shoved it between my legs and sat on it. I had enough adrenaline in my veins to run a mile. Again I said, “Why do you care for me?” I am sure all of us have had these kinds of close calls, but for me I knew that it was more than just good luck. As I have recalled my life and seen the hand of love that so often delivered me from my stupidity where I placed my life in danger, I have wondered at His care cared for a wretch like me. I have seen all the proof for Gods nature and character that I have ever needed.

I can't say that I have done a lot of study, but when it has come my way I have relished it. For so many years the creation vs evolution debate seem to always go to the evolutionists. But in the last decade or two, things have swung the other way. The evidences for creation and God are fascinating to me. I feel like a kid at Christmas when new things are discovered. It is just one of the perks to my experience. What I am looking forward to is the next world. We will have all the wonders of creation and the universe to learn about. Our minds and intellect will be far superior to what we have now. The best part is we will never have to be told that something has been changed cause they found out that something was not true. Everything will be right from the Creators mouth. When I was a kid I was quite disenchanted with school. Summers were too short. If I would have been told that eternity was going to be a continual school I would have wondered if we got summers off. Now I love to learn new things. Forgive me if I am going off into what some might think is la la land. But I know it is going to be an awesome time. And at the risk of sounding like I am recruiting I would like to have you fellows with me. I have come to enjoy your company.

OutByEaster Since I am the one who brought up the topic I should answer this. It seems a simple thing to me. God is very personal since he made the physical world so intricately and made us to be very personal beings. He has not left us in a world that is ready to self-destruct without help. He has gone to the greatest length to create and to save. His final acts to save a lost race, many of which we have witnessed in this land and others of which that have been occurring out there where you live, have been so awesome how can we not believe. The greatest of which is His personal moving in my heart. He has freed me from the things that would have destroyed me had I stayed in the world I once lived in. He wakes me up in the night and helps me work through things wherein I need resolution. He opens things to me that I could never have figured out myself. He has assured me of longings that I have never had an assurance of before. I do not wish to lay out such precious things with those who are only curious. It would be like inviting you into the wedding bedroom. This cannot be. So I suppose my friend you will just have to accept this as an answer for now. All I can say is that I have put my trust in Him and He has not let me down. I cannot prove to anyone these things and they are not anything Wayne Bent has told me. He has most certainly helped me to see a different God than I grew up fearing, and he has always told us to go to God and ask Him what to do. He never tells us what we are to do or how to live our life.

You will find that question very well answered at strongcity.info

BOF Wasn't the point of how we live already covered? Terry, do you remember that?

That kind of takes things into a tail-chasing debate. I think it may be be better expressed like this. Father is in love with every soul as if it were the only one in His creation. He carefully takes each person very seriously. He places choices in front of you, day after day, and lets you choose. This is what forms the character and this determines your destiny. This final crisis brings things to a completion quickly. Yes He probably knows what you are going to choose in the end. But He works it out with you and when the lost soul finally stands before Him, He says, "Did I leave anything undone to save you?" Those who are lost at last will have nothing to accuse him of. All will be seen without any excuses or smokescreen. javascript:emoticon(':oops:')They will be naked with Him. He will be naked and so will they. This is how fair He is. He doesn't just torch people without resolution on both sides. It really removes the idea of this angry and cruel God, don't you think?

As I stated today it is made to be a crime and for good reason. The likelihood of birth defects is greatly increased. When the gene pool was fresh that was not a concern.

Yes. God always works with humanity. We are His counterpart and companion and He solicits our cooperation. Paul quoted a Greek fellow when he said, "In Him we live and move and have our being." and I would add to that, "In us He lives and moves and finds His being." This is what the Marriage of the Lamb constitutes. We are One with God. In the movie Michael said, "I am divinity and humanity combined." That is what our destiny has always been. As with Adam, we were taken from His side, born of the water and the blood. When he was pierced with a spear blood and water came out. Paul says we are His body, His flesh and His bones. We are inseparable form God.

Jerry - thank you for the parable. I'm sure if Jesus were around today he too would be updating parables to things such as F1 - sorry, I forgot Christ is here and talking through you we have such a parable? I am interested that you use the principle of human minds and the human development of language in order to provide clear evidence of the existence of god. It seems to be based on an error of logic. though. It equates DNA and language. You deem these things to have similar characteristics thus you view them as the same. You then take from language the characteristics not evident in DNA and apply these characteristics to DNA. =============================== Actually I think you are incorrect but I will leave it up to you to deal with that. Should you be interested in an answer to this you can go to this URL http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm It is a physicist talking about the balance in the universe. I find him quite interesting until he starts talking about evolution at the end. However, there are a few links at the bottom that cover the information theory. I believe the first of them, "If You Can Read This, I Can Prove God Exists" is the most recent presentation.

no but their children would be! Err.... Terry....Jerry....Timmy.... HELP!!! The only problem is that today the gene pool is so deteriorated that it is not wise. By the way Eve was related to Adam, she was taken from him. Made from his rib wasn't she? I just don't remember any reference to an actual 'relation'. Yes. Adam said when he saw her, "This is flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone." It was given as a symbol for our present experience.

I think that has been covered, but I will be glad to say it again. It is simply to place this offense in the faces of everyone so that they will make a decision. As I said before, God opens two doors and people make a decision as to which one they will walk through. There was enough of the truth exposed in the film so that the true hearted seeker after God would be drawn by it. God's Spirit will use it to draw them. It may be just a look on someone's face or Ben's words, "Either God is watching out for His Son, or Wayne is making it up as he goes along." They would then be led to more truth on the net or they will be given it in a quiet moment in their own room. It is also true that one may be offended by the film and yet be drawn to look deeper and find the truth, such as on a forum like this. One soul from the UK has already come alive. The others who have no life in them, to be drawn with, will just naturally choose the other door.

no but their children would be! Err.... Terry....Jerry....Timmy.... HELP!!! The only problem is that today the gene pool is so deteriorated that it is not wise. By the way Eve was related to Adam, she was taken from him.

There is something that Terry neglected to mention. Michael said that God told him to let Ben and Eddie make the film. He also told Michael to tell them everything. Michael was at complete rest about it all. Michael also told Ben several times he could trash us or make us look good, it made no difference. He would only put into the movie what God wanted. Michael said that he sees very clearly how Father kept him from seeing what was going to be done with the film, as he would have been tempted to not cooperate. Personally, I think it would have affected his presentation. So being kept from seeing Ben’s true intent until the very last day was all part of the plan. However the outcome is now getting clearer and clearer as Father is opening up His purposes for the film, in the grand theme of things.

and I love the people here Im glad you enjoy it here. I know Terry was asked the question before, but not you... Do have an interest in football or soccer as them there crazy americans call it? :winkold: Sorry friend, sports have never been much to me. I was quite mediocre in them as a youth.

Yes they did exist. I believe God created them. Some say that the people back then who were extremely intelligent helped bring them about by cross breading and gene manipulation. Who can say? As far as "current scientific evolutionary explanations" go. They begin with the assumption that these happened long ago and work there evidence to make it fit that. There is plenty of evidence to show the other side of the coin, but I don't care to go into that.

and I love the people here

Thank you for making that clear. I'm more than willing to give you that, I retract the word proof. How about clear evidence that no one has disproved. All better now?

We all believe that 6000 years ago it took 6 days to make everything and He rested the 7th Some creationists think there was 6 long periods of time between the days creation and that is when evolution took place. Where God tinkered with things. So you had millions of years of things dying before man came along. But the Word says that man brought sin into the world and death by sin. So we cannot accept these long years of time where death occurred.

Hammer as you will at my feeble reasoning or logic, the scientific evidence is still there. Can you show us a natural process that has or can produce information and a language without a Mind behind it? God gives us evidence of His presence but He always leaves room for the doubter to keep his beliefs. The whole reason that this movie was produced was to separate and expose who is who in the final controversy. It is very fair though, God does not come down and arbitrarily zap those who are bad. He opens two doors and each enters the one they want.